Twin time in US

[mrwilko]

Hi. I'm planning on going to the US next month to build twin IR hours. Any advice on schools, etc. ? Thanks.

[AndyDRHuddleston]

flying multi in USA

on this topic, I'd also like to ask if it is possible to rent a multi with a JAA M/E rating???

....sounds like a silly question, but I have done alot of flying in the states, and this included a JAA M/E rating, and for the test I can log p1S, so surely somewhere along the lines I am allowed to fly an N registered multi as PIC??

Any advice or slants on this?

Thanks

Andy

[LAX]

Air Desert Pacific

Try - Air Desert Pacific - based at Bracket airport (Pomona) just north of LA.

Rates are good (Seneca and seminole) . Climate good. Lots of great places to fly into. Aircraft Maintenance is also good.

They can arrange accomodation close by and collection on arrival.

[boogie-nicey]

I agree go to Air Desert Pacific at Brackett field just east of LA. They used to have a convienent motel arrangement which more than exceeds the minimums and was only $50 a night (though I realise the prices must have changed by now).

Any ADP was a straight forward school that just gets on with the flying and are very flexible and fair. No OAT style marketing spin or silliness here, they know what they're doign and have reasonable prices coupled with good maintenance support for all their aircraft. Only point to keep in mind is that they're quite popular and therefore a little busy but they always try and fit you in somehow and somewhere.

PM if you need some more info.

[razzele]

have you had a look at ...

www.aribenaviator.com



razzele

[pilgrim flyer]

ADP aircraft 'functional' rather than beautiful, though I was there in 2000/2001, may be different now.

I had great instruction thro FAA CPL/Multi/IR and would concur with opinions expressed above.

However they won't (or wouldn't then) hire out multis to non MEI's without a safety pilot so you might want to check out the current situation.

PF

[jimbo jet set]

You definatley need to look at www.sunstateaviation.com . They have an excellent fleet of very nice aircraft at very reasonable prices. They also have a preferencial arrangement with the local Super 8 motel on US192 so theres plenty to do outside of flying!!

They've got excellent instructors also. I've flown with them for on three occaisions and have logged about sixty hours on their wonderful 172's.

Jim

p.s I'm in no way affiliated with them- just a satisfied customer.

[hixton]

ADP are not at Brackett any more

[commpilot76]

Ari Ben Aviator

Check out Ari Ben Aviator located in Fort Pierce Florida. They have a really good 100 hour time building program with really dicent prices. also if you are looking for P1 time I have heard that they also provide that as well check out their website www.aribenaviator.com and look at the time building section. Excellent school. Really enjoyed my tour there.

[bfato]

Be aware though that Ariben naturally use the FAA definition of P1 time, which with an instructor in the RHS would have to be P/ut in your JAA logbook. They also count safety pilot time in their quotes, which can't be logged at all under JAA rules. Still worth a look, but you may have to halve the time you'll get from that quoted.

[Whopity]

"to build twin IR hours"

But that will require a FAA IR,or validation of a UK IR! in order to fly IFR. If you have either, what on earth do you need to build IR hours for?

[pilgrim flyer]

Originally Posted by Whopity

"to build twin IR hours"

But that will require a FAA IR,or validation of a UK IR! in order to fly IFR. If you have either, what on earth do you need to build IR hours for?

To become a multi engine instructor perhaps?

PF

[bfato]

what on earth do you need to build IR hours for?

To become eligible for single pilot taxi ops?

[potkettleblack]

Be aware though that Ariben naturally use the FAA definition of P1 time, which with an instructor in the RHS would have to be P/ut in your JAA logbook. They also count safety pilot time in their quotes, which can't be logged at all under JAA rules. Still worth a look, but you may have to halve the time you'll get from that quoted.

Not sure that the above is strictly correct. If you are receiving training from an instructor then you would log p/ut. If you were the sole manipulator of the controls then you would log P1 (irrespective of whether an instructor came along for a jolly in the RHS to cream some of your hours under FAA). If you were sitting in the RHS acting as safety pilot for another hour builder under the hood then under JAA you log nothing. Hence why you need to halve the hours on the Ariben packages and see if the rates are competitive.

[bfato]

Originally Posted by potkettleblack

Not sure that the above is strictly correct. If you are receiving training from an instructor then you would log p/ut. If you were the sole manipulator of the controls then you would log P1 (irrespective of whether an instructor came along for a jolly in the RHS to cream some of your hours under FAA). If you were sitting in the RHS acting as safety pilot for another hour builder under the hood then under JAA you log nothing. Hence why you need to halve the hours on the Ariben packages and see if the rates are competitive.

I am told that, under FAA rules, a ppl accompanied by an instructor can log P1 if he holds a licence for the class of airplane (sic) and is occupying the left hand seat. We would call that P/UT, unless the instructor is acting as a passenger and not in command of, nor logging, the flight.

When not with an instructor, IFR hour building out there is conducted in pairs with you taking it in turns to act as safety pilot. Under FAA regs, the safety pilot can log P2, under our rules he can't. This P2 time is included in Ariben's 100hrs. So 100 FAA hrs is actually 50hrs P1 and 50 hrs safety pilot, or 50 JAA hours.

[potkettleblack]

I am told that, under FAA rules, a ppl accompanied by an instructor can log P1 if he holds a licence for the class of airplane (sic) and is occupying the left hand seat. We would call that P/UT, unless the instructor is acting as a passenger and not in command of, nor logging, the flight.

If the instructor is in the RHS to go for a jolly and get his hours up under the FAA system and does not in anyway instruct you then you would log P1 under JAA and he would log whatever they do in the US. I did 100 hours out in the US and became Mr Popularity as FAA instructors with time on their hands would want to come for a ride and enjoy a nice sleep whilst logging hours. Nice work if you can get it!

[bfato]

If the instructor is in the RHS to go for a jolly and get his hours up under the FAA system and does not in anyway instruct you then you would log P1 under JAA and he would log whatever they do in the US. I did 100 hours out in the US and became Mr Popularity as FAA instructors with time on their hands would want to come for a ride and enjoy a nice sleep whilst logging hours. Nice work if you can get it!

I see your point. But if you fly with an instuctor, and you know he's going to log P1, then surely you can't log P1 under our rules. Only one of you can be ultimately responsible for the flight. If you'd busted a TRA, which one of you would have wound up in court?

[potkettleblack]

The way I see it is that its really not much different to when two pilots go for a fly together. You need to brief beforehand on who is in control, and if you plan on swapping mid flight or at the completion of a sector then work out the semantics of it on the ground before you go. With an FAA instructor on board its not a lot different. They were under no illusion that I was logging P1 for JAA cos at the end of the day I wouldn't be hour building if I wasn't getting P1 time. If you brief who is in control and make this clear enough before you go then it is their issue to explain to Mr FAA how they gave some instruction to a JAA qualified PPL/IMC licence holder. I never checked their logbooks nor couldn't give a toss if they logged the time. I would hazard a guess that some would have thrown in a few hours here and there and others would have just enjoyed getting to a nice place for lunch and seeing the back of the FTO for a few hours.

As for busting airspace or heaven forbid crashing well fortunately I am here to tell the tale but I would hazard a guess that the lawyers will find me culpable. Afterall who did the planning, got the weather, put fuel in the plane, spoke to ATC, flew the plane and would have busted the airspace. The FAA instructor would argue till he was blue in the face that he didn't instruct me as he never would have shown any interest in any of the stuff I just mentioned. Like I say it was purely a taxi service. I wouldn't even know where to start with the FAR's nor wish to learn.

I can see that it can be construed as a bit of a grey area but there is enough evidence for me to sleep easy knowing all my P1 hours are valid.

[bfato]

It's a stupid point really, don't worry about it. What it comes down to is I don't understand how the FAA can have a system of two people logging PIC for the same flight. Only one of you can be the commander, captain, bossman, head honcho, whatever. It's not about who does the planning or handling but who was in charge, who the buck stops with. By the sounds of it you agreed before the flight that it was you, so you're justified in logging PIC. Why their system allows him to also claim credit is beyond me.

[commpilot76]

P1 Time

I just Called Ari Ben Aviator and found out hey have a new program for the JAA guys comming to the US for hour building it is called All P1 time. I would highly recommend giving them a call and talking with Mike or Mary or Josh about it, sounds like a Great deal.