Am I too stoopid
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Am I too stoopid
Just a quickie troops . I am 37 years old and have just completed my PPL . As I think most do I struggled to get through some portions . This is in the main due to my inability to do anything remotely mathematical. This stems back from schooldays where I couldnt even get maths o level. I am considering going the whole hog and going to groundschool somewhere to do the ATPL's . Now am I flogging a dead horse here I must stress my understanding of maths and some protions of physics are that of a 5 year old and I dont consider myself very intelligent , that said can someone of my ability with a bit of commitment pass these exams or am I just fooling myself ?
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congrats on getting the ppl! Most employers expect gcse equivilent passes in maths, english and sometimes physics for aviation. You don't need to be smart to do the groundschool, but you do need to be 100% dedicated. If you do a full time course, you shouldnt have a problem.
As for the o-levels, i would suggest you get at least maths and english before you proceed. http://www.dfes.gov.uk/get-on/
In addition, think long and hard - recruitment is getting better amongst airlines but it is still very very competitive. Would you settle working for a small charter company or bein a flying instructor?
Hope this is of some use
Vigi
As for the o-levels, i would suggest you get at least maths and english before you proceed. http://www.dfes.gov.uk/get-on/
In addition, think long and hard - recruitment is getting better amongst airlines but it is still very very competitive. Would you settle working for a small charter company or bein a flying instructor?
Hope this is of some use
Vigi
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I would fly pa38s for a living if they would let me or the proverbial rubber dog pooh outa hong kong (even though we know only highly paid types get to do that)I wouldnt mind what I do so long as it was flying Im currently a copper so no bolshy airlines schedules or namby pamby management would do my head in . Its the age thing as well if I do maths o level thats another year enrol on atpl course thats a least another year 18 months realistically who wants a daft 40 yr old flying their a/c whose only marketeable skill is hitting people with a metal stick
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who wants a daft 40 yr old flying their a/c whose only marketeable skill is hitting people with a metal stick
Seriously, don't let school results affect your judgement, take it from someone else who unintentionally failed everything under the age of 17, ATPLs aren't that bad and the maths is really pretty basic.
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The maths involved in the ATPLs is about the same as the old O levels. The physics is of a similar standard. I know several coppers who have had brain changes and now fly for airlines. Its definatly not cheap though and 37 is getting a little late, not impossible but late......
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'o' level standard maths and physics is not that complicated (unless you really are stoopid!). As you're a similar age to me, I suspect it was poor teaching rather than the subject matter.
Get a copy of what we used to call keyfax (ie the course notes) for each subject and read through. I suspect you'll find it easier than you thought.
Get a copy of what we used to call keyfax (ie the course notes) for each subject and read through. I suspect you'll find it easier than you thought.
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stoopid is as stupid does!!
I think the main problem here , is being out of any form of education for such a long time. Maths and physics at the best of times always made me cringe as a kid, never mind now!!. I am just turned 34, startd my ppl last year in the states, now in spain half way through the ATPLs. I was really having the same thoughts when i started, but get yourself in the books, im talking the basics here, on maths and aerodynamcs ( a good site for learning basic aerodyamics is http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/short.html ). If you want to go all the way, you have just got to want to do it enough. Being a little older, it took me a while to get into the swing of it, but now i actually enjoy it!!. When i first took delivery of 14 new shiny oxford ATPL books, just one look and i thought maybe i should have stuck with my day job, but that would have been just giving up. Knowledge is everything, and as soon as you learn everything in those godforsaken 14 books, everything in them becomes pretty easy. I think the problem is not so much what you have to learn, its the AMMOUNT that you have to learn. Dont let it put you off, go for it if its what you really want, (financial constraints considered of course), you still have 20 years flying in you.Good Luck
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If it helps any I am currently doing my atpl ground school,I am also sh1te at maths. Most of it is ok once you have your head around it,whenever I get stuck properly I ask one of my mates most of whom work in aviation but are not switched on enough to be pilots,they are good a maths and such though.
I t has been said that if you were clever you wouldn't be a pilot
and I am yet to meet one who came across as smart!
If all else fails they are multiple choice exams!
I t has been said that if you were clever you wouldn't be a pilot
and I am yet to meet one who came across as smart! If all else fails they are multiple choice exams!
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Acquiring the ATPL will be the easy part; little academic acumen required; it's simply a memory juggling act involving volumes of essentially worthless information coupled with the ability to cough up large amounts of cash. The stumbling block may unfortunately come immediately afterward when attempting to secure airline employment. Many if not most potential employers use standardised tests to determine proficiency in mental arithmetic - not totally unreasonable as true situational awareness in the air is largely dependent upon it. Best to play the realist and ask yourself if a non-airline career in aviation will satisfy both your ambition and bank account. If you can say 'yes', then go ahead - otherwise proceed with caution and eyes wide open.
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Give it a go max.. You never know unless you try and yl kick yourself one day and say 'I wish I'd tried'.
I did my ATPL's last year at OAT the age of 30, I Had to do a couple of retakes in second phase due to complacency after 7 first time passes in phase one but with hard work and dedication it can be done.
I left school at 16 with only minimal qualifications (5 gcse's D&below) an E grade in maths and virtually no physics or advanced science/maths knowledge whatsoever apart from what i my have picked up from tv etc.
At times it can be tough and you'll have to abandon the social life for a bit but when you get the letter with the words PASS plastered allover it all the hard work will be well worth it.... guaranteed!!!
I did my ATPL's last year at OAT the age of 30, I Had to do a couple of retakes in second phase due to complacency after 7 first time passes in phase one but with hard work and dedication it can be done.
I left school at 16 with only minimal qualifications (5 gcse's D&below) an E grade in maths and virtually no physics or advanced science/maths knowledge whatsoever apart from what i my have picked up from tv etc.
At times it can be tough and you'll have to abandon the social life for a bit but when you get the letter with the words PASS plastered allover it all the hard work will be well worth it.... guaranteed!!!
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Thanks to all for your responses much appreciated , now all i have to do is let the missus of her cupboard and see if shes prepared to agree yet or not if not another week should do it if I turn off the heat
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Max... If you knew what you wanted to do when you were at school I'm sure you would have passed all your exams, no problem... You know NOW what you want and what you need to do and I really don't think you'll have to much trouble .. they really are more a "memory" test then anything else ! Good luck mate........ and even more good luck to the missus !!
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I would give it a go.. I am not a huge math fan either but i did make it through the ATPL course! As someone here said, it is more like a memory test. There is alot of understanding to it also but still i spent most of the time to memorize things.
Good luck
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sorry, but what kind of math do you have to know?.
all they ask(for the ATPL) is how to use +,-,x,... ,and simple math equation like ax+b=y
no integer, no differential calculus,...
during my ATP, only one guy had a real hard time.speed was his problem.
all they ask(for the ATPL) is how to use +,-,x,... ,and simple math equation like ax+b=y
no integer, no differential calculus,...
during my ATP, only one guy had a real hard time.speed was his problem.
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Maths and physics! Stoopid or not!
Sorry but I am not sure if this post is a joke or serious, in case there should be a reality check.
Personally I am at the age bracket 36, and wondering if I should give it a go and go all the way for ATPL (FAA and JAA)
On another post I have recieved mixed feedback on the age subject itself, give it a go and risk spending £60.000 with not to many job prospects after, however you can only find out if you try!
However with regards to maths and physics I am not sure if I agree with most of the positive responses on here. Personally I did go out with A levels in both maths and physics. (Science - subjects in Norway)
After looking at different aptitude tests that airlines uses and flying now lately only computer based flight simulator, I do understand before I could start my work towards ATPL I would need to refresh my basic maths and physics. (I have had PPL many years ago and logged 150 hours night and day)
Yes of course sitting on the ground pre-calculating with all the time in world is not a problem for any of us, even with less then good skills in these subjects, however it's entirely different matter when sitting in 737 at 250 knots, and you have some system failure you will need to make swift recalculation of course, speed and navigations points. This is when the most basic maths or physics knowledge might save your life and passengers life.
I would think of you have difficulty with the most basic in maths and physics you would have a very hard time to pass an airlines aptitude test during your interview.
What I am assuming is that an airline wants to see how you can handle multiple tasks under stress.
However I do believe you can train your brain to understand these tests, I have in passed years done few of these tests by applying for officer school in the army - most of them was very basic, but level of difficulty always increases with every question.
No my view point is that if you have problems with basic O-levels, how is your experience with basic maths x, - , /,+ ? Can you solve basic calculations fast? This you must ask yourself.
What about Geometry? Calculating vectors?
What about understanding physic elements? Electricity, magnetism?
One thing is passing the theory, but with time you also need experience to understand things that might influence the operation of the plane, what can be the reason for faults during flight?
I am sorry I maybe sound to realist in this case, but you have to take all things into consideration, what are you goals?
I am not saying you must be an expert, but the way you present yourself it is as you cant handle the most basic stuff, or maybe you have presented yourself wrongly.
How was your understanding of what you learned during PPL? With reference to lift? drag? weight? Navigation calculations?
Nobody can give you the answers, the answers you must understand yourself.
An example of an aptitude test that is done by an european airline is the following:
658 - 334 = 325 (incorrect)
Another example could be 289 - 136 = 146 (this one incorrect)
They give you 15 subtractions (like the one above) that you must reply as fast as possible if this is correct or not. Now to do this there are easy technics, but this is just one example.
These are simple calculations, and you might say what practical use does this have on my flying skills? The last example could be an example from a flight where you would need to recalculate a course while you are flying, due to unforseen circumstances.
What I am saying is that you must be honest with yourself, and understand what you are getting into, the costs, the main goal of what you doing, pros and cons. Its all ok when you have prepared all on the ground, and everything goes as planned. But its when the unexpected happens you have to be prepared to use your basic skills in maths and physics.
Personally I am at the age bracket 36, and wondering if I should give it a go and go all the way for ATPL (FAA and JAA)
On another post I have recieved mixed feedback on the age subject itself, give it a go and risk spending £60.000 with not to many job prospects after, however you can only find out if you try!
However with regards to maths and physics I am not sure if I agree with most of the positive responses on here. Personally I did go out with A levels in both maths and physics. (Science - subjects in Norway)
After looking at different aptitude tests that airlines uses and flying now lately only computer based flight simulator, I do understand before I could start my work towards ATPL I would need to refresh my basic maths and physics. (I have had PPL many years ago and logged 150 hours night and day)
Yes of course sitting on the ground pre-calculating with all the time in world is not a problem for any of us, even with less then good skills in these subjects, however it's entirely different matter when sitting in 737 at 250 knots, and you have some system failure you will need to make swift recalculation of course, speed and navigations points. This is when the most basic maths or physics knowledge might save your life and passengers life.
I would think of you have difficulty with the most basic in maths and physics you would have a very hard time to pass an airlines aptitude test during your interview.
What I am assuming is that an airline wants to see how you can handle multiple tasks under stress.
However I do believe you can train your brain to understand these tests, I have in passed years done few of these tests by applying for officer school in the army - most of them was very basic, but level of difficulty always increases with every question.
No my view point is that if you have problems with basic O-levels, how is your experience with basic maths x, - , /,+ ? Can you solve basic calculations fast? This you must ask yourself.
What about Geometry? Calculating vectors?
What about understanding physic elements? Electricity, magnetism?
One thing is passing the theory, but with time you also need experience to understand things that might influence the operation of the plane, what can be the reason for faults during flight?
I am sorry I maybe sound to realist in this case, but you have to take all things into consideration, what are you goals?
I am not saying you must be an expert, but the way you present yourself it is as you cant handle the most basic stuff, or maybe you have presented yourself wrongly.
How was your understanding of what you learned during PPL? With reference to lift? drag? weight? Navigation calculations?
Nobody can give you the answers, the answers you must understand yourself.
An example of an aptitude test that is done by an european airline is the following:
658 - 334 = 325 (incorrect)
Another example could be 289 - 136 = 146 (this one incorrect)
They give you 15 subtractions (like the one above) that you must reply as fast as possible if this is correct or not. Now to do this there are easy technics, but this is just one example.
These are simple calculations, and you might say what practical use does this have on my flying skills? The last example could be an example from a flight where you would need to recalculate a course while you are flying, due to unforseen circumstances.
What I am saying is that you must be honest with yourself, and understand what you are getting into, the costs, the main goal of what you doing, pros and cons. Its all ok when you have prepared all on the ground, and everything goes as planned. But its when the unexpected happens you have to be prepared to use your basic skills in maths and physics.
