IMC and IR in a modular course?
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IMC and IR in a modular course?
Hello,
My apologies if this has been asked before (have tried searching);
I'm currently studying on a relatively new degree course that incorporates a degree with a modular fATPL (with a well-known UK FTO). Part of the 2nd year is hours building toward a CPL, and an IR is part of the 3rd year.
However, I've been told that part of the hours building will be an IMC rating....which to me sounds a little redundant given the IR less than a year later (esp. bearing in mind the cost of IMC groundschool etc) and I'm under the impression that an IR does not require an IMC.
I'd prefer to get some informed opinions before questioning my training organisation.
Is an IMC a good/necessary/expensive/redundant way to hour-build? Would you recommend it?
Thanks in advance,
Hobbit1983
My apologies if this has been asked before (have tried searching);
I'm currently studying on a relatively new degree course that incorporates a degree with a modular fATPL (with a well-known UK FTO). Part of the 2nd year is hours building toward a CPL, and an IR is part of the 3rd year.
However, I've been told that part of the hours building will be an IMC rating....which to me sounds a little redundant given the IR less than a year later (esp. bearing in mind the cost of IMC groundschool etc) and I'm under the impression that an IR does not require an IMC.
I'd prefer to get some informed opinions before questioning my training organisation.
Is an IMC a good/necessary/expensive/redundant way to hour-build? Would you recommend it?
Thanks in advance,
Hobbit1983
Join Date: Mar 2000
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hobbit1983,
Out of interest where are you studying? Sounds like an interesting degree.
You are right that an IMC rating is not required for the CPL or IR. However it is a great starting point for basic IF. Hobbit quote, "(esp. bearing in mind the cost of IMC groundschool etc)" There isn't any cost of IMC ground school. Read TT book 5 and learn from your instructor. The writen test is pretty simple.
The IMC is not an IR, not by a long way, however i feel it is a useful step in the right direction. Being introduced to basic IF and getting a scan going etc are all very useful before your IR. Make sure your instructor knows you're going on to do an IR so the IMC rating can be made as similar as possible. It's is also very enjoyable.
You did mention it was for hour bulding. The IMC is 15 hours dual therefore none would count as "hour building" towards the 100 hours PIC required to start your CPL. So including your night rating that's an extra 18 hours approx over and above PIC time required.
Out of interest where are you studying? Sounds like an interesting degree.
You are right that an IMC rating is not required for the CPL or IR. However it is a great starting point for basic IF. Hobbit quote, "(esp. bearing in mind the cost of IMC groundschool etc)" There isn't any cost of IMC ground school. Read TT book 5 and learn from your instructor. The writen test is pretty simple.
The IMC is not an IR, not by a long way, however i feel it is a useful step in the right direction. Being introduced to basic IF and getting a scan going etc are all very useful before your IR. Make sure your instructor knows you're going on to do an IR so the IMC rating can be made as similar as possible. It's is also very enjoyable.
You did mention it was for hour bulding. The IMC is 15 hours dual therefore none would count as "hour building" towards the 100 hours PIC required to start your CPL. So including your night rating that's an extra 18 hours approx over and above PIC time required.
Last edited by Lord Flashheart; 31st Jan 2006 at 13:06.
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Thanks Lord Flashheart,
I'm studying for a BA (Hons) in Air Transport at BCUC, High Wycombe. The flight training is with Cabair. The degree is interesting but so far a little light (however the 2nd year is ATPL theory and a CPL so I trust it will pick up!)
Having asked Cabair to clarify the position vis a vis the IMC (and the Night rating in the same period) they are going to get back to me tommorrow.
Thanks for the info on the IMC - much appreciated.
I'm also hoping/planning/saving to do an Aeros and Taildragger rating over the summer break. Is this viewed as useful hours time within the industry, or would I be better off spending the money elsewhere?
Hobbit1983
I'm studying for a BA (Hons) in Air Transport at BCUC, High Wycombe. The flight training is with Cabair. The degree is interesting but so far a little light (however the 2nd year is ATPL theory and a CPL so I trust it will pick up!)
Having asked Cabair to clarify the position vis a vis the IMC (and the Night rating in the same period) they are going to get back to me tommorrow.
Thanks for the info on the IMC - much appreciated.
I'm also hoping/planning/saving to do an Aeros and Taildragger rating over the summer break. Is this viewed as useful hours time within the industry, or would I be better off spending the money elsewhere?
Hobbit1983
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A well taught IMC will reduce the stress on the IR, and will enable you to complete the course in minimum hours.
A badly taught IMC will mean you'll have to unlearn it all for the IR.
Make sure the IMC is taught by someone who has an IR and who has real-life IMC experience. PPL instructors don't need IRs to teach an IMC, so you could be taught by someone who has never actually flown in IMC!
A badly taught IMC will mean you'll have to unlearn it all for the IR.
Make sure the IMC is taught by someone who has an IR and who has real-life IMC experience. PPL instructors don't need IRs to teach an IMC, so you could be taught by someone who has never actually flown in IMC!
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Hey hobbit1983,
I've only done very basic aeros training in a T67 Firefly and have ony a few dual hours tail dragger on a T10 Chipmunk. I found the aeros helped my general handling a lot. You don't realise how little you require the use of rudder skills in something like a PA28 until trying basic aeros in something a little less stable.
Aeros really improved my stick and rudder skills and i would definantly recommend it. I can give you contact details for an excellent little school in Sheffield if you like. Very friendly, very nice aircraft, very experienced instructors including some RAF for the aeros training. If you want details i can pm you.
I've only done very basic aeros training in a T67 Firefly and have ony a few dual hours tail dragger on a T10 Chipmunk. I found the aeros helped my general handling a lot. You don't realise how little you require the use of rudder skills in something like a PA28 until trying basic aeros in something a little less stable.
Aeros really improved my stick and rudder skills and i would definantly recommend it. I can give you contact details for an excellent little school in Sheffield if you like. Very friendly, very nice aircraft, very experienced instructors including some RAF for the aeros training. If you want details i can pm you.
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Lord Flashheart
That would be great, thankyou. Am also looking into Old Sarum Flying Club and Ultimate High, due to their Bulldogs and ex-RAF instructors (used to be an Air Cadet, and my first experience of flying was in an AEF Bulldog. Unforgettably brilliant.)
And while the PA-28s we fly from Denham are quite nice to fly in, and very forgiving for this low-hours stude! it would be nice to convert into something more aerobatic this summer.
Hobbit1983
That would be great, thankyou. Am also looking into Old Sarum Flying Club and Ultimate High, due to their Bulldogs and ex-RAF instructors (used to be an Air Cadet, and my first experience of flying was in an AEF Bulldog. Unforgettably brilliant.)
And while the PA-28s we fly from Denham are quite nice to fly in, and very forgiving for this low-hours stude! it would be nice to convert into something more aerobatic this summer.
Hobbit1983
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Do the aeros, great fun and teaches you good stick skills. A well taught IMC will also help as teh other posters have already said. You can't get too much instrument time.
If you are man enough you could also a gliding trial lesson to learn about adverse yaw, what rudders are for and a PFL thrown in every time. Winch launching should also open your eyes.
If you are man enough you could also a gliding trial lesson to learn about adverse yaw, what rudders are for and a PFL thrown in every time. Winch launching should also open your eyes.
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Can very much recommend Old Sarum Flying Club for your aero's training, two bulldogs, many very exprienced aero's instructors and a great club atmosphere. Location makes transit times to suitable operating areas for aero's about 5 mins with no height restrictions due to airspace etc. Very important when shooting about in those thirsty B120's!
WD
WD
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IR credit for IMC
There is talk on the PPL/IR web site that a change may be coming in 2006 whereby 10 hours of an IMC rating can be used as credit for an IR. Details here:
http://www.pplir.org/index.cfm/pageid/181/subpageid/346
http://www.pplir.org/index.cfm/pageid/181/subpageid/346
