Frozen ATPL Without ATPL Groundschool?...
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 63
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From: Herne Bay, Kent, UK
Frozen ATPL Without ATPL Groundschool?...
Hello;
I am looking round at some options, I came across American School Of Aviation and noticed that their 'Course Track' states zero to Frozen ATPL, but they do not state the ATPL Ground-school Needed?
Can You please take a look and see...
Click Here Please
The track I am looking at is Track
JAA CPL (F-ATPL) (After Track C)
Thanks A Lot
Jamie
I am looking round at some options, I came across American School Of Aviation and noticed that their 'Course Track' states zero to Frozen ATPL, but they do not state the ATPL Ground-school Needed?
Can You please take a look and see...
Click Here Please
The track I am looking at is Track
JAA CPL (F-ATPL) (After Track C)
Thanks A Lot
Jamie
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 133
Likes: 0
From: Bournemouth, UK
They state 8 to 12 months for what you are looking at. If that doesn't include the ATPL ground studies then it's going to be a long drawn out course. You have to do theory exams to get the CPL issued, so I think they just aren't stating the obvious. Remember that a frozen ATPL isn't an actual license. It's just a term used for somebody who's got a CPL/IR and done the ATPL theory and just needs the hours to un-freeze the ATPL license.
Regards
Stoney.
Regards
Stoney.
Last edited by Stoney X; 14th November 2005 at 08:16.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 182
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From: N22 E114
Hi Jamie,
You are exempt the Ground school requirements for any Foreign Licence that you currently hold. So if you hold a FAA CPL you are exempt the Ground school you only need to pass the exams. It's the same if you hold a FAA ATPL you don't have to do the ground school just pass the exams. All 14 of them. Don't know many, or is that any, people who would pass the exams without some kind of course or Brush up.
Jamie, I suspect the course get you the FAA Licence and then does your JAR ATPL exams by the Distance Learning route. Lots of places you can do that - BGS, BCFT, OAT, London Uni, Glasgow, NAC, Cabair and GTS.
Jamie, visit some schools. Talk to the staff and the students (away from the staff), look around see what you think of each place. If it feel wrong for you look for some where else.
Yes Flying is expensive. Cheap training maybe more expensive.
W1
You are exempt the Ground school requirements for any Foreign Licence that you currently hold. So if you hold a FAA CPL you are exempt the Ground school you only need to pass the exams. It's the same if you hold a FAA ATPL you don't have to do the ground school just pass the exams. All 14 of them. Don't know many, or is that any, people who would pass the exams without some kind of course or Brush up.
Jamie, I suspect the course get you the FAA Licence and then does your JAR ATPL exams by the Distance Learning route. Lots of places you can do that - BGS, BCFT, OAT, London Uni, Glasgow, NAC, Cabair and GTS.
Jamie, visit some schools. Talk to the staff and the students (away from the staff), look around see what you think of each place. If it feel wrong for you look for some where else.
Yes Flying is expensive. Cheap training maybe more expensive.
W1
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 743
Likes: 1
From: Kilmacolm
I'm sorry but if you only hold an FAA CPL then you are NOT exempt from the groundschool requirement unless they are just going for the CPL(A) exams.
Ie, within Lasors, Section D, Page 8, under the heading "Non-JAA CPL(A) Licence":
-----
The holder of a valid (or non-expiring) CPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State may be issued with a JAA CPL(A) providing the experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.555(b) and (c) have been met. Applicants must:
Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical Certificate
Undertake CPL(A) theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at CPL(A) level. Applicants who wish to attempt examinations at a higher level (ie, ATPL(A) level) must undertake the full 650 hour course approved theoretical knowledge instruction and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level.
Blah blah blah...
-----
If you hold an FAA ATPL and haven't met the high experience requirements (ie, 500 hours Multi Crew etc) then you will find in Lasors, also in Section D on Page 8, under the heading "Non-JAA ATPL(A) Holders":
-----
The holder can of a valid (or non-expiring) ICAO ATPL(A) who does not meet the experience requirements for the grant of a JAR-FCL ATPL(A) as detailed in Section G1.5, can still apply for a JAA-FCL CPL(A)/IR. Applicants must:
Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical Certificate.
Undertake CPL(A) and IR(A) theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider, and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge at CPL(A) and IR level. Applicants who wish to attempt examinations at a higher level (i.e. ATPL(A)) must undertake the full 650 hour course of approved theoretical knowledge instruction and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level.
Blah blah blah...
-----
So it looks like unless you have the experience on multi crew aircraft then you'll have to undertake the 650 hour course and pass all of the 14 exams at ATPL(A) level. You couldn't hold an FAA ATPL and just do the JAA CPL and IR exams as that will not give you the ATPL credits at JAA, thus you wouldn't hold a JAA "frozen" ATPL.
Ie, within Lasors, Section D, Page 8, under the heading "Non-JAA CPL(A) Licence":
-----
The holder of a valid (or non-expiring) CPL(A) issued in accordance with ICAO Annex 1 by a non-JAA State may be issued with a JAA CPL(A) providing the experience requirements of JAR-FCL 1.555(b) and (c) have been met. Applicants must:
Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical Certificate
Undertake CPL(A) theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at CPL(A) level. Applicants who wish to attempt examinations at a higher level (ie, ATPL(A) level) must undertake the full 650 hour course approved theoretical knowledge instruction and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level.
Blah blah blah...
-----
If you hold an FAA ATPL and haven't met the high experience requirements (ie, 500 hours Multi Crew etc) then you will find in Lasors, also in Section D on Page 8, under the heading "Non-JAA ATPL(A) Holders":
-----
The holder can of a valid (or non-expiring) ICAO ATPL(A) who does not meet the experience requirements for the grant of a JAR-FCL ATPL(A) as detailed in Section G1.5, can still apply for a JAA-FCL CPL(A)/IR. Applicants must:
Hold a valid JAR-FCL Class 1 Medical Certificate.
Undertake CPL(A) and IR(A) theoretical knowledge instruction as determined by the Head of Training of an approved training provider, and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge at CPL(A) and IR level. Applicants who wish to attempt examinations at a higher level (i.e. ATPL(A)) must undertake the full 650 hour course of approved theoretical knowledge instruction and pass ALL of the JAR-FCL theoretical knowledge examinations at ATPL(A) level.
Blah blah blah...
-----
So it looks like unless you have the experience on multi crew aircraft then you'll have to undertake the 650 hour course and pass all of the 14 exams at ATPL(A) level. You couldn't hold an FAA ATPL and just do the JAA CPL and IR exams as that will not give you the ATPL credits at JAA, thus you wouldn't hold a JAA "frozen" ATPL.
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 4,729
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From: 75N 16E
Can you add to the CPL exams later to get the ATPL?
I hold an FAA CPL/IR and thought about converting to JAA CPL/IR but really don't see a need to do the ATPL exams at the moment, as I don't have the need to. If I could just do the CPL exams and convert, then later on if circumstances change add the additional exams, then I would definitely consider this route.
cheers
I hold an FAA CPL/IR and thought about converting to JAA CPL/IR but really don't see a need to do the ATPL exams at the moment, as I don't have the need to. If I could just do the CPL exams and convert, then later on if circumstances change add the additional exams, then I would definitely consider this route.
cheers
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 743
Likes: 1
From: Kilmacolm
As far as I can see, if you have an FAA CPL/IR then you'll be able to take the JAR-FCL CPL(A) and IR exams without the full courses of training.
However this will only entitle you to hold a JAA CPL(A)/IR.
If you would like to "upgrade" to the JAA ATPL(A) (or so called "frozen" ATPL(A)) then the JAR-FCL CPL(A) and IR exams will count for nothing. You will need to undertake and pass all 14 JAA ATPL examinations. Whether you would need to do the full 650 hour course or just "training as required", I do not know.
However this will only entitle you to hold a JAA CPL(A)/IR.
If you would like to "upgrade" to the JAA ATPL(A) (or so called "frozen" ATPL(A)) then the JAR-FCL CPL(A) and IR exams will count for nothing. You will need to undertake and pass all 14 JAA ATPL examinations. Whether you would need to do the full 650 hour course or just "training as required", I do not know.
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 434
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From: Brighton, UK
englishal the ATPL exams don't really involve that mch more than the CPL ones so you may as well bite the bullet and do them all save any hassle at a later stage, though I am not sure whether you just add the missing ones or have to redo the entire lot if you just do the CPL ones.
