Importance of ATPL theory results?

[gazman21]

Hi,
I hear lots of people at my flight school say that the results of the ATPLs are unimportant, a pass in each subject is all that matters at the end of the day.Just wondering if anybody has an opinion,is it worth the effort putting in extra effort to get high marks or is that a waste of time,do the airlines care?

Cheers
gazman21

[George Semel]

Ask yourself this, are they going to put your grades on your pilot certificate or license? Before the freedom of information act, its one of those little unintended consaquences, you had to really study and study hard for the FAA written. A good grade was 80 you needed 70 to pass. Now most get mid 90's to 100 %. In the old days the saying was 70 was equal to 100. I understand that its a little different in Europe. You guys get to take 14 exams and spend a half a year in ground school, and its not cheap. Get the best grade you can, in the end it will not matter much, except for some HR non flying types. In all my years, what I got for grades on the faa exams never came up. On the other hand, the pre employment exams counted a lot. But not enough if you interview badly. When its all said and done, the only thing that counts is that ATP in you wallet, and 4000 hours in the Logbook, better if most of that 4000 hours is heavy jet, if that floats your boat.

[scroggs]

The marks you get in the ATPL exams do not appear in your licence, or on any other documentation that prospective employers get to see. If you are on an employment-linked course (CTC or similar), there may be competitive pressure to get the highest marks in your group and there may be some implied pressure from the school to get high marks, but in reality the airlines are interested in the fact that you have the licence and little more.

That's not to say that you shouldn't try your hardest to do the best you can, but it's emphatically not a disaster if you get 80% instead of 95%.

Scroggs

[countonme]

At the end of the day the scores are only important to one person - YOU. The career which you are about to embark on is not only about passing exams and flying tests, it's about having personal standards and 'doing better tomorrow what you did today'.

You might say it's a load of tosh, but IMHO that's what flying is about. Good luck anyhow.

[Maude Charlee]

If it was important, more airlines would ask for your grades in their application processes - few bother. Overall grades and numbers of attempts has had absolutely no correlation to the success or otherwise of the guys from my course, and that was in 2002 when there were more newbies than you could shake a stick at, and airlines went wild with their arbitrary requirements for the few jobs available.

That's not to say that you shouldn't make the effort - the discipline of studying is good for you - but don't get hung up on the outcome as long as you bag all 14. Flying grades and your ability to pay your way through your post-graduate training are way more important than your groundschool.

[G-SP0T]

i disagree. most airlines do see your results, they SHOULD be on your cv, many do not state it but require a certain mark - eg BA req 85%.

Put your self in the employers position, you get 1000 CV's for 5 jobs, how do u pick the best, obvious, you pick the person with the most qualifications, then narrow it down even more by seeing who out of these has the highest mark in the subjects.

I believe any one could pass the JAR exams at 75% with all the feedback tht is about, it takes knowledge AND UNDERSTANDING of the subject to get a pass mark in the 90's.

what you should be thinking of, is how can i make myself look better than the other guy up for this job, not can i make myself apear the same.

That said, i know of people who have got marks in the 90's and been turned down because they are not the write person. but like i said - anything to make yourself look that bit better.

good luck

[CarbHeatIn]

At the moment I think BA care more about how many thousand jet hours you have, not whether you got 83 or 86 in Human Performance Limitations.

[ChocksAwayUK]

I think he's referring to a very limited number (24?) of low-hours places that came up last year for integrated types and really just went to those who'd been sucessful in the now-defunct BA sponsorship but dropped post-9/11 (and continued self-funded anyway). A requirement was 85+.

[south coast]

g-spot...


quote:

I believe any one could pass the JAR exams at 75% with all the feedback tht is about, it takes knowledge AND UNDERSTANDING of the subject to get a pass mark in the 90's.


all it takes to pass in the 90's is to study the feedback questions a bit harder, thats all.

it's all exam technique with some knowledge and a lot of feedback question recognition, oh, the answer is B!

you dont use half the stuff anyway, so dont blow it out of proportion as to whether it has any relevance or bearing on what kind of pilot it is going to make you.

[scroggs]

by G-SPOT

i disagree. most airlines do see your results, they SHOULD be on your cv, many do not state it but require a certain mark - eg BA req 85%.

Remind me which airline's recruiting department you work for, Spotty?

Airlines do not see your exam results unless you choose to tell them. There is no reason to put your percentages on your CV. If an airline has paid for your training (which none do any more), or has offered you a job contingent on certain results (easyJet/CTC), they may be entitled to see your results. If you are a self-sponsored student, that is not the case.

I reiterate for the hard of hearing: you should do your best to get the highest mark you can, but a pass is a pass.

Scroggs

[G-SP0T]

you dont use half the stuff anyway, so dont blow it out of proportion as to whether it has any relevance or bearing on what kind of pilot it is going to make you.

at what point did i say any of it was usefull?

Remind me which airline's recruiting department you work for

i dont, although from my experience of running a business, you take dont bring in every applicant who has sent you a cv, you bring in the one with the best qualifications.

I think its important for people to realise that not every one can be a pilot, it takes a special kind of person, not the kind who enters into name calling on internet forums "spotty".

[pipergirl]

i dont, although from my experience of running a business, you take dont bring in every applicant who has sent you a cv, you bring in the one with the best qualifications

...i'd hate to work in your business...here's me thinking that the person with the best and most relevant experience should prevail

I think its important for people to realise that not every one can be a pilot, it takes a special kind of person, not the kind who enters into name calling on internet forums "spotty".

granted, not everyone has the aptitude to be a pilot, just like others professions..but i feel there is a problem attitude amongst certain pilots that this profession is an elitist one, when in fact it is generally financial restrictions that force a lot of people not to follow their ambitions of flying.
You do not have to be special or have super human powers to be a pilot..just a lot of money and discipline for the hard slog during your training.

Now correct me if I'm wrong-
Scroggs has the following experience;
22 yrs RAF (C130), Virgin Atlantic B747, now A340....
now, oh wise one,any chance on filling us in on what your experience is?!?

Back on to the original debate-
In my experience, the airlines do NOT look at the grades achieved at ATPL level...that's why i always find it amusing when people rattle off this "pass average"razzamatazz...

[G-SP0T]

but would you not agree, even if just for the sake of motivation that someone should try and get the highest mark, and not try to 75% in fear of "wasting effort"

[pipergirl]

That's not what's being discussed.
Of course if you are entering into examinations of any sort, you try to do the best you can...just like anything in life, try to do your best.
Anyone going into ATPL examinations doing anything different is foolish.

and I was always told, anything above 75% is wasted effort!

I think you may be misunderstanding something-
I believe Kissmyqsquirrel(love that name....hehe) is referring to joke that a well known ATPL ground instructor used to make about wasted effort-he's not being serious.

[gaypilote]

quote:

"but i feel there is a problem attitude amongst certain pilots that this profession is an elitist one, when in fact it is generally financial restrictions that force a lot of people not to follow their ambitions of flying.
You do not have to be special or have super human powers to be a pilot..just a lot of money and discipline for the hard slog during your training"


Here here pipergirl, I believe anyone can get through the ATPLs with enough money, time, effort and money. Same goes for the flying side of training, its a skill, and a skill can be learnt, I get embarressed when I see guys/girls with 100 hrs in a Cessna 152 with a God complex

But on topic, the way I see it, a licence is a licence. Its like saying someone who got through the CPL in 25 hrs is better than someone who took 35 hrs. You need to look at the bigger picture, I've heard it said airlines ask 2 questions, 1)would i let my family fly with him/her, and 2)would i like to do a 9 hr leg with them.

Not so sure I'd like to sit and chat to some guy who has just come out of training with 95% av. and a God complex.

Sorry, still not found out how to 'quote' properly

[Tallbloke]

2 candidates identical in every way, except one has a 75% average and one has a 97% average. Which do you choose?

Now you have 300 candidates CVs on your desk. Of these 300 you need to select 6 for interview. What methods would you use? Hours, currency, age etc etc. All quantative factors. Agreed qualitative factors are also important and become increasingly important as you progress through the selection process, but to get a job first of all you need an interview.

Just my €0.02.

[pipergirl]

well, in my opinion, I would call the two identical candidates for interview and decide from that.
At the end of the day any joker could put "97% average"on their CV when they could have achieved just 75%.

[Lee Frost]

Don't listen to Pipergirl folks. I know for a fact that her exam prep technique is to hang around canal towpaths drinking cans of lager and laughing uproariously.



LF

[Martin1234]

Use your time wisely but "over-studying" for the ATPL exams probably isn't an efficient way of improving your skills as a pilot. The best assessment you can get is "pass" which means that this is what you need to achieve.

If you are to look at the results first time passes should count for more. This says more about your ability to achieve a defined goal, with a reasonable margin.

For reasons stated earlier on this forum I couldn't transfer my exams from one country to another so I needed to re-take several of the exams I already passed. The first time I sat gen nav was with a result of 96%. More than a year later I was to re-take this exam and got 82%. I knew that I was most likely to pass the exam even without refreshing my memory very much. As long as I pass with a reasonable margin I rather spend my time reading up on things that might actually keep me alive.

[G-SP0T]

I would call the two identical candidates for interview and decide from that.

your having a laugh, surely you cant expect an airline to interview 300 people for 1 job!!! there going to bring in who looks better on paper.