Definitive Cost Of JAA fATPL, as I see it ?
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Definitive Cost Of JAA fATPL, as I see it ?
Good day chaps,
After a few weeks of looking around and stacking through the usual bull that the flights schools send you, I have come to a definitive price on gaining the following, this seems to be the way to go to fly in Europe, this is what you get with Naples who seem to offering the best deal as far as I can tell
FAA Private Pilots Licence
FAA Instrument Rating
JAA Commercial Pilots Licence
JAA Instrument Rating
JAA Multi Engine Rating
JAA Frozen Airline Transport Pilots Licence
This is with the usual of 200 hour total time. MCC and IR conversion in the UK. The course is with Naples Air center.
Total cost: 54064.00 USD (Including Exams, Accom etc etc)
So chaps, the only thing left to calculate are extra hours and having to retake exams, I would estimate this to be around 2,500 USD ?
Also lets throw in at least 10,000 USD living expenses for the year.
Grand Total: 66, 564.00 USD
So what do you guys make of this figure, any of you disagree or have better suggestions ?
Cheers
Richard
Grand Total: 66, 564.00 USD
After a few weeks of looking around and stacking through the usual bull that the flights schools send you, I have come to a definitive price on gaining the following, this seems to be the way to go to fly in Europe, this is what you get with Naples who seem to offering the best deal as far as I can tell
FAA Private Pilots Licence
FAA Instrument Rating
JAA Commercial Pilots Licence
JAA Instrument Rating
JAA Multi Engine Rating
JAA Frozen Airline Transport Pilots Licence
This is with the usual of 200 hour total time. MCC and IR conversion in the UK. The course is with Naples Air center.
Total cost: 54064.00 USD (Including Exams, Accom etc etc)
So chaps, the only thing left to calculate are extra hours and having to retake exams, I would estimate this to be around 2,500 USD ?
Also lets throw in at least 10,000 USD living expenses for the year.
Grand Total: 66, 564.00 USD
So what do you guys make of this figure, any of you disagree or have better suggestions ?
Cheers
Richard
Grand Total: 66, 564.00 USD
Do your figures include CAA charges for exams, medicals and licence issue?
And it will almost certainly take you longer than a yearto do all the study, exams and flying. You haven't factored in air fares or car hire/purchase either.
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My estimated total cost :
FAA PPL/CPL/IR $25000 =£13500 at todays rate
FAA CFI/CFII/MEI $5000 = £2700
(Optional)
CAA Medical £400
JAR Ground School £2000
(Distance + Brush Ups)
Exams £400 (?)
JAR CPL (15 hours+skills test) £3100
CPL Flight Test £ 564
JAR IR (Before 15 hour rule) £11100
IR Flight Test £ 564
CAA License Issue £ 300
MCC Course £2800
CTC AQC Course £5500
TOTAL £37428 = (69000USD)
PS Much of this training was undertaken several years ago, so inflation would maybe take todays value of this up by 10-15%. However this would be more than offset by the reduction in the JAR IR requirement (50hours when I converted, 15 hours now)
I also ended up taking two MCC courses, after my first one I subsequently got accepted onto CTC's ATP scheme. Hence I effectively wasted £2800.
As Ham Phisted implies there are myriad other expenses that are incurred, loss of earnings, travel etc etc. Obviously very difficult to quantify.
FAA PPL/CPL/IR $25000 =£13500 at todays rate
FAA CFI/CFII/MEI $5000 = £2700
(Optional)
CAA Medical £400
JAR Ground School £2000
(Distance + Brush Ups)
Exams £400 (?)
JAR CPL (15 hours+skills test) £3100
CPL Flight Test £ 564
JAR IR (Before 15 hour rule) £11100
IR Flight Test £ 564
CAA License Issue £ 300
MCC Course £2800
CTC AQC Course £5500
TOTAL £37428 = (69000USD)
PS Much of this training was undertaken several years ago, so inflation would maybe take todays value of this up by 10-15%. However this would be more than offset by the reduction in the JAR IR requirement (50hours when I converted, 15 hours now)
I also ended up taking two MCC courses, after my first one I subsequently got accepted onto CTC's ATP scheme. Hence I effectively wasted £2800.
As Ham Phisted implies there are myriad other expenses that are incurred, loss of earnings, travel etc etc. Obviously very difficult to quantify.
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rziola - the 'grand total' figure is meaningless without a full breakdown of how it was achieved.
Advertised prices - at ANY school - are usually twaeked to fit the minimum profile requirements and are rarely achievable.
At least one school here in the USA advertises a JAA PPL assuming 25 hours dual and 20 hours solo - but to do it is pretty much out of the question - so there WILL be extra charges.
They admit that it is an advertised price that is generated by the back biting flight training industry here in Florida.
I'm curious as to where the $2,500 estimate for re-sits and extra training came from. Take the UK Instrument Rating flight test, for example, the first attempt is the hardest flight you are ever likely to do - the second hardest will be the re-sit (statistically, only 40% of applicants pass this test first time - less than half - so it is MORE LIKELY that you will end up re-sitting this one).
With a test fee around GB£600, 2 hours of aircraft hire at around £350 per hour, landing fees, approach fees, car parking fees, lunch, bit of V.A.T., possible transit of the aircraft from base to the test centre and back (with extra landing fees and instructor fees?), the test day is going to cost you somewhere in the region of GB£1,500 - that's US$2,700 at todays exchange rate and you haven't yet added in "extra training" required to correct the mistakes.
As the saying goes, "Be afraid, be very afraid" of any advertised price - at ANY school.
Advertised prices - at ANY school - are usually twaeked to fit the minimum profile requirements and are rarely achievable.
At least one school here in the USA advertises a JAA PPL assuming 25 hours dual and 20 hours solo - but to do it is pretty much out of the question - so there WILL be extra charges.
They admit that it is an advertised price that is generated by the back biting flight training industry here in Florida.
I'm curious as to where the $2,500 estimate for re-sits and extra training came from. Take the UK Instrument Rating flight test, for example, the first attempt is the hardest flight you are ever likely to do - the second hardest will be the re-sit (statistically, only 40% of applicants pass this test first time - less than half - so it is MORE LIKELY that you will end up re-sitting this one).
With a test fee around GB£600, 2 hours of aircraft hire at around £350 per hour, landing fees, approach fees, car parking fees, lunch, bit of V.A.T., possible transit of the aircraft from base to the test centre and back (with extra landing fees and instructor fees?), the test day is going to cost you somewhere in the region of GB£1,500 - that's US$2,700 at todays exchange rate and you haven't yet added in "extra training" required to correct the mistakes.
As the saying goes, "Be afraid, be very afraid" of any advertised price - at ANY school.
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Granted.
The initial estimate was based on the minimums achievable as advertised by the Schools and a bit of common sense. It now appears to me that going the initial FAA way with ATP would come out at about the same, check this : 37,995.00 USD with housing http://www.atpflightschool.com/airli...ram/index.html
Certificates & Ratings
Private Multi-Engine
Instrument Multi-Engine
Commercial Multi-Engine
Commercial Single-Engine
Certified Flight Instructor:
Multi-Engine
Instrument Airplane
Single-Engine
Jet Transition:
High Altitude Endorsement
High Performance Endorsement
Flight Time
200 Hours Logged Time
190 Hours Multi-Engine Time
75 Hours Multi-Engine Cross-Country
62 Hours Multi-Engine Instruction
& Flight Checks
Up to 3 Hours Citation Jet
50 Hours Multi-Engine FTD
10 Hours Single-Engine Time
Then you merely have to pay for the conversion back in the UK, while being able to work etc. What do you think ?
The initial estimate was based on the minimums achievable as advertised by the Schools and a bit of common sense. It now appears to me that going the initial FAA way with ATP would come out at about the same, check this : 37,995.00 USD with housing http://www.atpflightschool.com/airli...ram/index.html
Certificates & Ratings
Private Multi-Engine
Instrument Multi-Engine
Commercial Multi-Engine
Commercial Single-Engine
Certified Flight Instructor:
Multi-Engine
Instrument Airplane
Single-Engine
Jet Transition:
High Altitude Endorsement
High Performance Endorsement
Flight Time
200 Hours Logged Time
190 Hours Multi-Engine Time
75 Hours Multi-Engine Cross-Country
62 Hours Multi-Engine Instruction
& Flight Checks
Up to 3 Hours Citation Jet
50 Hours Multi-Engine FTD
10 Hours Single-Engine Time
Then you merely have to pay for the conversion back in the UK, while being able to work etc. What do you think ?
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It sounds to me as though you are quoting from web sites and brochures without really applying a modicum of common sense or other peoples experience. An example of this is your initial post where you list a fATPL. Ask around - this is a semi official term for a CPL/IR. It isn't a course in it's own right.
Spend a bit of time searching here for peoples opinions on the best route. Cheapest isn't necessarily best - especially if you want to come back to UK and work.
One thing I would say is that I estimate my training was around £35k in the UK (apart from SA PPL). obviously lived at home so wasn't paying a lot of living expenses. If you can do the same it may be worthwhile staying here.
I will agree with above though, a year is a tight schedule to stick to.
Spend a bit of time searching here for peoples opinions on the best route. Cheapest isn't necessarily best - especially if you want to come back to UK and work.
One thing I would say is that I estimate my training was around £35k in the UK (apart from SA PPL). obviously lived at home so wasn't paying a lot of living expenses. If you can do the same it may be worthwhile staying here.
I will agree with above though, a year is a tight schedule to stick to.
