Oxford and CTC
Just to add to Alex's response -
1) Irrelevant - RTFQ - the question relates to the difference bertween OAT and CTC, not between integrated and modular. Many would argue that the construct of the CTC course is more within the spirit of integrated training than the severely 'modularised' construct of the OAT course.
2) Defer to Alex's superior knowledge
3) True but irrelevant. A properly conducted selection process will inevitably improve the overall pass rate and the better the process, the better the pass rate.
4) True but irrelevant
5) Depends what you mean by limited. I agree that the majority of CTC's graduates end up going straight into airline jobs, thus missing out on the 'variety' of instructing, night freight, corporate, etc. However, that's what the majority of CTC's graduates want to do.
6) So do CTC's
7) So are you suggesting that CTC's pilots have less personality?
8) A more naive statement it is difficult to imagine. All schools must meet the minimum requirements laid down in JAR-FCL and not one of the requirements therein relates to the standard of instruction. The CAA makes much of the first time pass rate ("The Authority will consider training at an FTO satisfactory when its students achieve a 70% first time pass rate at the IR Skill Test"). Most schools struggle to achieve even half of this rate but the CAA has never, to my knowledge, removed or suspended an approval on the grounds of poor training quality. Hardly surprising since there is nothing in JAR-FCL that allows them to do so.
9) Add also to Alex's list the Knight Air Bandeirante on departure from LBA that crashed in bad weather following a main AI failure. Oxford have had a long-standing contract with BMI and so it is possible that one or both Kegworth pilots were Oxford trained but, again, that's irrelevant. The question related to accidents caused by poor instruction, not accidents caused by instruction provided by a specific school.
10) If you don't understand the difference between learning and experience, there's really not much point in debating this item.
This is not meant to be a 'puff' for CTC, with who I do not now, nor have ever had, any connection. I do, however, freelance for a number of TRTOs and am in a position to compare the products of many training providers, both integrated and modular, both UK based and overseas based. I can truthfully say that there is little to choose between CTC and OAT trained pilots when it comes to pure flying skills. However, the former tend to be better prepared for the transition to big aeroplanes and have less difficulty than the latter in gaining their first MPA type rating. This could have something to do with 5) above and is not to say that OAT is not a perfectly splendid organisation - After all, I trained there myself!
1) Irrelevant - RTFQ - the question relates to the difference bertween OAT and CTC, not between integrated and modular. Many would argue that the construct of the CTC course is more within the spirit of integrated training than the severely 'modularised' construct of the OAT course.
2) Defer to Alex's superior knowledge
3) True but irrelevant. A properly conducted selection process will inevitably improve the overall pass rate and the better the process, the better the pass rate.
4) True but irrelevant
5) Depends what you mean by limited. I agree that the majority of CTC's graduates end up going straight into airline jobs, thus missing out on the 'variety' of instructing, night freight, corporate, etc. However, that's what the majority of CTC's graduates want to do.
6) So do CTC's
7) So are you suggesting that CTC's pilots have less personality?
8) A more naive statement it is difficult to imagine. All schools must meet the minimum requirements laid down in JAR-FCL and not one of the requirements therein relates to the standard of instruction. The CAA makes much of the first time pass rate ("The Authority will consider training at an FTO satisfactory when its students achieve a 70% first time pass rate at the IR Skill Test"). Most schools struggle to achieve even half of this rate but the CAA has never, to my knowledge, removed or suspended an approval on the grounds of poor training quality. Hardly surprising since there is nothing in JAR-FCL that allows them to do so.
9) Add also to Alex's list the Knight Air Bandeirante on departure from LBA that crashed in bad weather following a main AI failure. Oxford have had a long-standing contract with BMI and so it is possible that one or both Kegworth pilots were Oxford trained but, again, that's irrelevant. The question related to accidents caused by poor instruction, not accidents caused by instruction provided by a specific school.
10) If you don't understand the difference between learning and experience, there's really not much point in debating this item.
This is not meant to be a 'puff' for CTC, with who I do not now, nor have ever had, any connection. I do, however, freelance for a number of TRTOs and am in a position to compare the products of many training providers, both integrated and modular, both UK based and overseas based. I can truthfully say that there is little to choose between CTC and OAT trained pilots when it comes to pure flying skills. However, the former tend to be better prepared for the transition to big aeroplanes and have less difficulty than the latter in gaining their first MPA type rating. This could have something to do with 5) above and is not to say that OAT is not a perfectly splendid organisation - After all, I trained there myself!
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Your use of language suggests you do at least know about the topic, and I appreciate your contribution. I can't be bothered to supply more counter arguments involving semantics and basic reasoned logic. But it baffles me how you've apparently missed my actual point entirely. Even with a higher degree in philosophy which, although useless for many things, 
does help with applied comprehension.
My point is that most quality of courses offered at different reputable schools are all much of a muchness, where you go depends on your personal preferences and which type of course is most suitable for your circumstances. So why agree with a counter argument?
People reading these threads are often seeking advice on where to study to become a professional pilot. Not an argument based on pissing up a wall (outdoing each other). I stand by original my advice to wannabes. Base you decision on your direct research, not on our opinions on PPRuNe where argument happens for argument’s sake.
“Contact all the schools; they all have open or visitor days. Talk to students there and ask if they are enjoying it. Ask them what the best and the worst aspects are”. And to add a bit, it can be helpful to take along your parents, family or partner so you have someone to discuss it all constructively and objectively with.
does help with applied comprehension. My point is that most quality of courses offered at different reputable schools are all much of a muchness, where you go depends on your personal preferences and which type of course is most suitable for your circumstances. So why agree with a counter argument?
People reading these threads are often seeking advice on where to study to become a professional pilot. Not an argument based on pissing up a wall (outdoing each other). I stand by original my advice to wannabes. Base you decision on your direct research, not on our opinions on PPRuNe where argument happens for argument’s sake.
“Contact all the schools; they all have open or visitor days. Talk to students there and ask if they are enjoying it. Ask them what the best and the worst aspects are”. And to add a bit, it can be helpful to take along your parents, family or partner so you have someone to discuss it all constructively and objectively with.
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I'd just like to add to Mr E Pilot's advice and point wannabies to Flyer exhibition, a good place to go to meet many from the industry. I've never been before so I can't vouch for it's value, but it's only £8 per person!
MO
MO
