Oxford sharp practice ?
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Oxford graduates Might and I stress the Might have a very slight edge compared to other FTO's. The airlines more often are concerned with wether or not you have gone down the integrated vs the modular route than which FTO you went to.
The posting by Dis80786 saying
smacks of believing all the marketing that is fed to you. Unfortunatly this just isnt true, and I speak as an OATS graduate who was fortunate enough to get a job. The airlines will go to the FTO that they have a history with, be it OATS or wherever.
The edge you will recieve from an FTO like OATS is that they do have limited contacts within certain airlines and if you are one of the very few lucky ones you may get an interview through them. The VAST majority however who get jobs, will do so through their own efforts,not due to which FTO they went to but because of the shear determination they put in to getting the job.
If you go to OATS do so because you have researched all the available FTO options available and you have decided that OATS gives you the best package overall. OATS is good, so are many of the others. You are far more likely to get a job because you have done well than you are to get one because you went to OATS.
One thing I noticed at OATS, about the students was that there were many who believed that the OATS label would get them a job. Many scraped through, put little effort into job hunting and didnt get jobs. Unfortunatly these tended to be the people who had had it given to them on a plate, and hadnt had to work to get into OATS and didnt pay their own fees. The ones who worked hard, got good results, and worked equaly as hard at getting a job where the ones who succeeded, this is the same whatever FTO you go to.
Your fate after graduation is in your own hands, you have to put in as much effort and determination as you did to get through the course in the first place. Should you get a job through the FTO then well done and good on you, however this is in reality a pipe dream. 99% of you will get jobs through contacts, CVs and shear determination. The most important of theses being determination, if you dont have that then find another career.
The posting by Dis80786 saying
in the eyes of the airlines puts Oxford mods/ints ahead of the other schools before we even open a book
The edge you will recieve from an FTO like OATS is that they do have limited contacts within certain airlines and if you are one of the very few lucky ones you may get an interview through them. The VAST majority however who get jobs, will do so through their own efforts,not due to which FTO they went to but because of the shear determination they put in to getting the job.
If you go to OATS do so because you have researched all the available FTO options available and you have decided that OATS gives you the best package overall. OATS is good, so are many of the others. You are far more likely to get a job because you have done well than you are to get one because you went to OATS.
One thing I noticed at OATS, about the students was that there were many who believed that the OATS label would get them a job. Many scraped through, put little effort into job hunting and didnt get jobs. Unfortunatly these tended to be the people who had had it given to them on a plate, and hadnt had to work to get into OATS and didnt pay their own fees. The ones who worked hard, got good results, and worked equaly as hard at getting a job where the ones who succeeded, this is the same whatever FTO you go to.
Your fate after graduation is in your own hands, you have to put in as much effort and determination as you did to get through the course in the first place. Should you get a job through the FTO then well done and good on you, however this is in reality a pipe dream. 99% of you will get jobs through contacts, CVs and shear determination. The most important of theses being determination, if you dont have that then find another career.
Last edited by batty; 21st Dec 2004 at 15:37.
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I would suggest that every Wannabe should print off Battys post and stick it up somewhere and read it regularly to remind themselves of the facts of life in this industry and this advice could be applicable to any other profession.
Well done Batty - that's one of the best posts I've seen on this topic!
Well done Batty - that's one of the best posts I've seen on this topic!
When you live....
Back on topic for a second:
A&C - unfortunately it's really not news that this practice goes on. All of the big integrated schools - OAT, EPFT, Cabair etc - make it VERY clear when you talk to them that they will only put forward integrated students for airline positions. Lets face it - it's the only logical reason for forking out the extra cash and it's the key marketing tool they have. Having said that, EPFT were giving hints recently that they believe that they'll soon have more airline placements available than integrated students (competent ones anyway) and so modular students might get a look-in - but I would suspect they'll find some way of charging you for that which is fair enough in context of the the current market philosophy.
But like WWW (Lord of the modular wannabees - all hail WWW!) says often on these boards, integrated courses are not necessary the way to airline jobs. As a modular student I (have to(!)) believe that if the market picks up then integrated students will struggle as airlines will be forced to look outside their current cost driven recruitment methods as the average integrated student quality will fall and the vested self-interest of the schools will eventually affect the bottom line of the final employer.
To dis80786 - if you've not got a limitless supply of cash and have saved to DIY then why go integrated? What do you think you'll achieve that's worth 20k? As an integrated student it's almost expected these days that you'll also pay for your 737 rating - how will you afford that if needs be?
The key question I'd love to ask integrated students is 'how will you get a job if you're NOT recommended by your FTO?' Surely the risk of having a big L stamped on your forehead means you should be paying LESS than a modular student for taking the risk? Ask OAT what happens to their graduates who don't get put forward.........
So yes - the current system is that integrated go forward, better modular get left behind. In fairness - caveat emptor applies to modular students too - if you didn't know this going in then there is no point bleating about it now! Personally, my risk profile is relying on the big employers realising/being forced to accept that taking students from FTOs with differing financial aims is not a long term viable option. Could backfire badly but you never know (which is what makes it fun really!).
Viva la revolution.......
UTR
A&C - unfortunately it's really not news that this practice goes on. All of the big integrated schools - OAT, EPFT, Cabair etc - make it VERY clear when you talk to them that they will only put forward integrated students for airline positions. Lets face it - it's the only logical reason for forking out the extra cash and it's the key marketing tool they have. Having said that, EPFT were giving hints recently that they believe that they'll soon have more airline placements available than integrated students (competent ones anyway) and so modular students might get a look-in - but I would suspect they'll find some way of charging you for that which is fair enough in context of the the current market philosophy.
But like WWW (Lord of the modular wannabees - all hail WWW!) says often on these boards, integrated courses are not necessary the way to airline jobs. As a modular student I (have to(!)) believe that if the market picks up then integrated students will struggle as airlines will be forced to look outside their current cost driven recruitment methods as the average integrated student quality will fall and the vested self-interest of the schools will eventually affect the bottom line of the final employer.
To dis80786 - if you've not got a limitless supply of cash and have saved to DIY then why go integrated? What do you think you'll achieve that's worth 20k? As an integrated student it's almost expected these days that you'll also pay for your 737 rating - how will you afford that if needs be?
The key question I'd love to ask integrated students is 'how will you get a job if you're NOT recommended by your FTO?' Surely the risk of having a big L stamped on your forehead means you should be paying LESS than a modular student for taking the risk? Ask OAT what happens to their graduates who don't get put forward.........
So yes - the current system is that integrated go forward, better modular get left behind. In fairness - caveat emptor applies to modular students too - if you didn't know this going in then there is no point bleating about it now! Personally, my risk profile is relying on the big employers realising/being forced to accept that taking students from FTOs with differing financial aims is not a long term viable option. Could backfire badly but you never know (which is what makes it fun really!).
Viva la revolution.......
UTR
