JAA CPL in Florida
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JAA CPL in Florida
I am yet another potential Florida student who is looking for a JAA CPL course. I have looked at the comments made about IFTA and NAC some of which were quite old. Has anyone any recent knowledge about Naples, IFTA EFT or OFT?
Why do it if it's not fun?
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Do a search and find my "CPL Diary" thread. Not sure whether 12 months will be recent enough to be of interest to you. If it is, and you've got any quesitons which aren't answered in that thread, then PM me too, or else post any specific questions on this thread.
FFF
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FFF
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NAC rental
I rented a PA28 for a 2 week tour last autumn from NAC. Their adverts said 'fully IFR" and that 'All ac were GPS equipped'. IFR meant one working VOR and one intermittent. No DME. Legal but not flush. The radios were dreadfull, and when I complained I was told they didn't have another ac for my tour so I could take it or, literally, leave it. The fuel gauge on one tank was bust at zero. There was no GPS. For most hour-building PPL's aiming to fly solo across to California and back this would have been unnacceptable but as an experienced Nav I gave it a shot and it worked with a few delays for minor hiccups (which they were reluctant to authorise repairs for). I'm sure the ac was legal, and only the repeated electrical failures made me doubt it's serviceability.
What concerned me most was the incredible money-mindedness of the operation- they were reluctant even to let me make one local phone call despite spending thousands of dollars with them. They let me off 'rental', which had not been detailed, for life jackets and a dinghy- a whopping $150 which they had not told me about beforehand anyway. (As a comparison, even the tiniest of airfields in many places has a loan car for use) Also, some of the staff there were so rude as to be offensive. My whole impression was of a struggling organisation where stress was overcoming standards.
If you want to rent a clapped out PA28 and be ignored by bolshy receptionists then by all means go to NAC; I won't be going again.
Trotts
<<edit: Just as a quick aside Trotts, in all fairness it's usually the FBO's (handling agents) at airfields that have loan cars for an hour or so - not the flying schools. There are some schools that will lend you their own personal cars, but very few.>>
What concerned me most was the incredible money-mindedness of the operation- they were reluctant even to let me make one local phone call despite spending thousands of dollars with them. They let me off 'rental', which had not been detailed, for life jackets and a dinghy- a whopping $150 which they had not told me about beforehand anyway. (As a comparison, even the tiniest of airfields in many places has a loan car for use) Also, some of the staff there were so rude as to be offensive. My whole impression was of a struggling organisation where stress was overcoming standards.
If you want to rent a clapped out PA28 and be ignored by bolshy receptionists then by all means go to NAC; I won't be going again.
Trotts
<<edit: Just as a quick aside Trotts, in all fairness it's usually the FBO's (handling agents) at airfields that have loan cars for an hour or so - not the flying schools. There are some schools that will lend you their own personal cars, but very few.>>
Last edited by Keygrip; 30th Oct 2004 at 19:03.
It wouldn't have helped trotts, since hours building is non-approved, but the CAA do have a set of minimum standards for aircraft to be used for approved training. They are included in CAP682 and you would be quite within your rights (not to say very wise) to insist that these standards are met in any aircraft you are offered. I'm sure the CAA would be very interested in any school that regularly flouts these standards.
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Hey Trotts,
Have to disagree with you there on your post. I have used Naples Air Center for all of my training on a modular basis and based on experience to date, I am extremely satisfied. I am about to do my CPL with them and that will have been a straight run from zero to f/atpl with the same outfit. I have no complaints with the set up at Naples, in fact I would go so far as saying they far outweigh any of the other schools around for pricing and quality of training. I also would wager the vast majority of NAC clientele that I have met over my 15 months in Naples have the same to say.
As for the planes, you state you were told they were IFR equipped and then horrified to discover thay were "Legal but not flush". It either was or wasn't. Flush or not doesn't matter. If you want flush then be prepared to pay upwards of 130 per hour for newer aircraft. To my knowledge all the NAC aircraft are IFR equipped. I have flown their aircraft in demanding IFR conditions and never had any hairy moments.......well none that were the fault of the aircraft anyway
!!! Their training fleet far exceed the quality you will find at most other establishments as their safety record will proove.
Don't get me wrong, there are moments as in any organisation that things don't go to plan but that is to be expected. It is too bad if you had a scheduling problem but in this game you can't avoid such issues arising sometimes. Try coming to a flight school and seeing your schedule has been doctored with Tip-EX and your appointment has been given to some one else. Believe me it happens and will drive you close to insanity.
Anyway that is my tuppence worth. I am not pushed either way but I just want to keep this thing balanced. I feel if we had a poll on good feedback on NAC versus bad, the good would be almost unanimous.
All the best,
Little-paddy
Have to disagree with you there on your post. I have used Naples Air Center for all of my training on a modular basis and based on experience to date, I am extremely satisfied. I am about to do my CPL with them and that will have been a straight run from zero to f/atpl with the same outfit. I have no complaints with the set up at Naples, in fact I would go so far as saying they far outweigh any of the other schools around for pricing and quality of training. I also would wager the vast majority of NAC clientele that I have met over my 15 months in Naples have the same to say.
As for the planes, you state you were told they were IFR equipped and then horrified to discover thay were "Legal but not flush". It either was or wasn't. Flush or not doesn't matter. If you want flush then be prepared to pay upwards of 130 per hour for newer aircraft. To my knowledge all the NAC aircraft are IFR equipped. I have flown their aircraft in demanding IFR conditions and never had any hairy moments.......well none that were the fault of the aircraft anyway
!!! Their training fleet far exceed the quality you will find at most other establishments as their safety record will proove. Don't get me wrong, there are moments as in any organisation that things don't go to plan but that is to be expected. It is too bad if you had a scheduling problem but in this game you can't avoid such issues arising sometimes. Try coming to a flight school and seeing your schedule has been doctored with Tip-EX and your appointment has been given to some one else. Believe me it happens and will drive you close to insanity.
Anyway that is my tuppence worth. I am not pushed either way but I just want to keep this thing balanced. I feel if we had a poll on good feedback on NAC versus bad, the good would be almost unanimous.
All the best,
Little-paddy
Join Date: Jan 2004
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little-paddy,
there are a few schools in Naples and around who can and will rent you a 2003/2004 C172 with all bells and whistles for $115 per hour, wet, less if you book block rates!!!!
FF
there are a few schools in Naples and around who can and will rent you a 2003/2004 C172 with all bells and whistles for $115 per hour, wet, less if you book block rates!!!!
FF
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Hi little paddy
You say you have no complaints with naples ! that's great , but for someone thats about to start your cpl there do you not find it a little inconvienent that their only jaa cpl instructor has gone awol ? well thats the word on the street anyway ..
You say you have no complaints with naples ! that's great , but for someone thats about to start your cpl there do you not find it a little inconvienent that their only jaa cpl instructor has gone awol ? well thats the word on the street anyway ..
Join Date: Aug 2003
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Topgun 4122T
Now now Topgun 4122T - you know full well that one of the two JAA CPL Instructors had to go back to the UK to renew his JAA FI as well as adding a SEP/MEP and RT examiners rating. As we discussed, he is attending the FI seminar in Wigan at the end of this week and will be starting your CPL course on Monday.
Congratulations on gaining your JAA MEP on Friday.
Congratulations on gaining your JAA MEP on Friday.
Last edited by Ninety-Nines; 1st Nov 2004 at 21:28.
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I have to say that positive feedback on NAC would NOT be unanimous.
When I was there, there discontent vs. content students probably was in the ratio of 1:3.
Not being vindictive and wanting to open a can of worms, I won't go into details. Suffice to say I went there, did my stuff, and went away again. I must say, though, that I was happy to leave Naples.
When I was there, there discontent vs. content students probably was in the ratio of 1:3.
Not being vindictive and wanting to open a can of worms, I won't go into details. Suffice to say I went there, did my stuff, and went away again. I must say, though, that I was happy to leave Naples.
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Frank-Furillo,
Sounds great. Unfortunately, I have not the luxury of the 35 bucks an hour extra as I doubt many others have either. You get what you pay for. If you want glass cockpit then it is available but at a cost.
All I am saying is, you are charged the most competitive rate in the area and you get a plane that is IFR equipped and has a sound powerplant. For me that is all I need. The bells and whistles are for further down the line. The planes are in good shape overall. Far better than most trainers.
But as I said, it is only my opinion. If you feel you have been screwed around, then you have to make your own decisions. It is your money. Maybe I have been lucky but for me as I said I have no complaints.
Later dudes,
Little-paddy
Sounds great. Unfortunately, I have not the luxury of the 35 bucks an hour extra as I doubt many others have either. You get what you pay for. If you want glass cockpit then it is available but at a cost.
All I am saying is, you are charged the most competitive rate in the area and you get a plane that is IFR equipped and has a sound powerplant. For me that is all I need. The bells and whistles are for further down the line. The planes are in good shape overall. Far better than most trainers.
But as I said, it is only my opinion. If you feel you have been screwed around, then you have to make your own decisions. It is your money. Maybe I have been lucky but for me as I said I have no complaints.
Later dudes,
Little-paddy
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Hi
If you are looking for quality CPL training there is only one choice and that is EFT. Just got back and I an raving about the quality of training. Trevor Brackston and his fellow CPL instructors are the best I have ever met, and a true inspiration to potential instructors. Got me through first time and I learnt alot. Cheers EFT. There is a very good reason they have an almost pefect pass rate.
Flying Paddy
If you are looking for quality CPL training there is only one choice and that is EFT. Just got back and I an raving about the quality of training. Trevor Brackston and his fellow CPL instructors are the best I have ever met, and a true inspiration to potential instructors. Got me through first time and I learnt alot. Cheers EFT. There is a very good reason they have an almost pefect pass rate.
Flying Paddy
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Flying Paddy
I could not agree more, I am going in the new year to EFT, for my CPL/ Me and IR training. I was in Naples last year, (whilst obtaining my PPL and hour building), although not with NAC, but I did have chance to look at NAC, EFT, Delta and others.
IMHO EFT every time.
FF
I could not agree more, I am going in the new year to EFT, for my CPL/ Me and IR training. I was in Naples last year, (whilst obtaining my PPL and hour building), although not with NAC, but I did have chance to look at NAC, EFT, Delta and others.
IMHO EFT every time.
FF
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More on Naples
Hi All,
Sorry if some of you didn't like my thoughts on Naples. I have no axe to grind against them as I will not have anything more to do with them. I am glad that it seems many people found their time there satisfactory; this was not the impression I got from talking to the students there last year but perhaps thay have changed things a little. However, courtesy and a positive manner cost nothing; neither does honesty on the net when customers are travelling thousands of miles and investing lots of time and money on the strength of the NAC site.
Of course ac break ( if they were always reliable our training costs would be tiny!), but the NAC attittude to the news of an unnserviceability, frankly, sucked.
There seems to be a view that we are at the mercy of these organisations. This is not the case, and are we really so used to shabby UK service that we accept it from organisations who can't do without us? Voting with feet is a strong incentive to improve standards - shrugging shoulders and bending over only sends the message that shabbiness is OK.
This is all a bit ironic - am I alone in thinking that schools with some negative PR for poor attittudes are costing themselves far more in lost bookings than just improving their ac and demeanour a little would? Or am I an old phogey in expecting quality in exchange for cash?
Sorry if some of you didn't like my thoughts on Naples. I have no axe to grind against them as I will not have anything more to do with them. I am glad that it seems many people found their time there satisfactory; this was not the impression I got from talking to the students there last year but perhaps thay have changed things a little. However, courtesy and a positive manner cost nothing; neither does honesty on the net when customers are travelling thousands of miles and investing lots of time and money on the strength of the NAC site.
Of course ac break ( if they were always reliable our training costs would be tiny!), but the NAC attittude to the news of an unnserviceability, frankly, sucked.
There seems to be a view that we are at the mercy of these organisations. This is not the case, and are we really so used to shabby UK service that we accept it from organisations who can't do without us? Voting with feet is a strong incentive to improve standards - shrugging shoulders and bending over only sends the message that shabbiness is OK.
This is all a bit ironic - am I alone in thinking that schools with some negative PR for poor attittudes are costing themselves far more in lost bookings than just improving their ac and demeanour a little would? Or am I an old phogey in expecting quality in exchange for cash?
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Hi tolosan
The JAA CPL skill test can be done in the states but the IR test must be done here. Although you can train for the IR in the states and do some hours here to get you up to speed.
FF
The JAA CPL skill test can be done in the states but the IR test must be done here. Although you can train for the IR in the states and do some hours here to get you up to speed.
FF
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Naples Air Center ----Bad
From my experience with these people; The Naples Air Center is very unscrupulous and will rob and cheat you blind. I'm suprised that they are still doing business.
So take my advice and avoid them.
So take my advice and avoid them.