Bristol Ground School - changes over the years
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Bristol Ground School - changes over the years
It's been a few years since I had to make the choice of which groundschool I would use for my ATPL exams. At the time, I contacted every single one of the schools, and based my decision largely on their response, but with a big emphasis on the quality of their printed notes.
One of the main reasons I chose Bristol was not just the quality of their notes, but also the fact that they seemed proud of their notes. When I asked for details, they sent me a pack which included a sample of the notes - something no other school did. I've even commented on this in the past. Their information pack proudly stated that they only used good quality paper for their notes. Little things, but things which showed they had the same attitude towards my training as I did.
So I was a little surprised, today, when I went out for lunch with a PPRuNe friend (hello Penguina!) who is looking into groundschool right now. She is going through the same process as me, asking the schools for information. Bristol, she tells me, sent her a demo CD together with a "With Complements" slip. And that's it. No information package, and, importantly, no sample of the printed notes.
I know that things can change over a period of a couple of years... but what's going on here? I understand that the CD has become more and more important to Bristol, but surely it is not as important as the notes themselves? Does that sense of pride in the notes which I detected a few years ago not still exist? Do Bristol believe that students are more interested in flashy multimedia videos than they are in the actual content of the notes from which they will do most of their studying? Are they so confident in their (well-deserved) good reputation that they don't feel the need to send out quality information packs any more?
I'm curious to hear what others think. I've been out of the groundschool loop for a while, so maybe multimedia really is more important than printed notes now? Whether it is or not, I do know that my very small sample of prospective new customers (i.e. a sample of one) is not very impressed by the response from Bristol, and is close to ruling them out on this basis.
FFF
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One of the main reasons I chose Bristol was not just the quality of their notes, but also the fact that they seemed proud of their notes. When I asked for details, they sent me a pack which included a sample of the notes - something no other school did. I've even commented on this in the past. Their information pack proudly stated that they only used good quality paper for their notes. Little things, but things which showed they had the same attitude towards my training as I did.
So I was a little surprised, today, when I went out for lunch with a PPRuNe friend (hello Penguina!) who is looking into groundschool right now. She is going through the same process as me, asking the schools for information. Bristol, she tells me, sent her a demo CD together with a "With Complements" slip. And that's it. No information package, and, importantly, no sample of the printed notes.
I know that things can change over a period of a couple of years... but what's going on here? I understand that the CD has become more and more important to Bristol, but surely it is not as important as the notes themselves? Does that sense of pride in the notes which I detected a few years ago not still exist? Do Bristol believe that students are more interested in flashy multimedia videos than they are in the actual content of the notes from which they will do most of their studying? Are they so confident in their (well-deserved) good reputation that they don't feel the need to send out quality information packs any more?
I'm curious to hear what others think. I've been out of the groundschool loop for a while, so maybe multimedia really is more important than printed notes now? Whether it is or not, I do know that my very small sample of prospective new customers (i.e. a sample of one) is not very impressed by the response from Bristol, and is close to ruling them out on this basis.
FFF
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Triple F,
Your thread is indeed a fair point, the multimedia party is a good one, but there is a massive assumption that we all have access to a pc of somesort and that we are all pooter literate.......like me!
Personally a combination of 'plastic' and paper are the way ahead, the graphics that multimedia offer are awesome and a picture paints a 1000 words but sometimes you need to look at parchment......don't you?
Having said that.......there's only 1 Alex Whittingham and the lack of printed examples will not stop me from sending friends and colleagues there. I'm thick as mince and I passed.
P.S.
Just the standard recruitment fee will do Alex. PMSL!!
Your thread is indeed a fair point, the multimedia party is a good one, but there is a massive assumption that we all have access to a pc of somesort and that we are all pooter literate.......like me!
Personally a combination of 'plastic' and paper are the way ahead, the graphics that multimedia offer are awesome and a picture paints a 1000 words but sometimes you need to look at parchment......don't you?
Having said that.......there's only 1 Alex Whittingham and the lack of printed examples will not stop me from sending friends and colleagues there. I'm thick as mince and I passed.
P.S.
Just the standard recruitment fee will do Alex. PMSL!!
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An interesting point.
When I chose them it was purely on reputation, having spoken to people both here and at the flying club. I didn't ask for a sample, nor was one sent. And to be honest I didn't miss it. In saying that I am glad everyone was right. Going in blindly like that could easily have backfired had it been somewhere of lesser reputation. I would guess now a good proportion of students go there on a recommendation now that JAA has been going a while and a few people have been through. They really are the business.
As for the reliance on multi media. I can only venture the following opinions:
-The CD really is very good, and I believe the latest version is even better. As G says it really brings things to life. The TCAS stuff stands out, as did the CRP 5 module and the high speed flight stuff. Progress tests become much less hassle and the search function is handy.
-As a result of this Bristol have a very good competitive edge over Oxford, their nearest competitors. So why not push this advantage.
-Did the demo not have a sample of notes in it, albeit on a screen not on paper?
I would be curious to know if a pack is available to non computer owners. Anyone?
When I chose them it was purely on reputation, having spoken to people both here and at the flying club. I didn't ask for a sample, nor was one sent. And to be honest I didn't miss it. In saying that I am glad everyone was right. Going in blindly like that could easily have backfired had it been somewhere of lesser reputation. I would guess now a good proportion of students go there on a recommendation now that JAA has been going a while and a few people have been through. They really are the business.
As for the reliance on multi media. I can only venture the following opinions:
-The CD really is very good, and I believe the latest version is even better. As G says it really brings things to life. The TCAS stuff stands out, as did the CRP 5 module and the high speed flight stuff. Progress tests become much less hassle and the search function is handy.
-As a result of this Bristol have a very good competitive edge over Oxford, their nearest competitors. So why not push this advantage.
-Did the demo not have a sample of notes in it, albeit on a screen not on paper?
I would be curious to know if a pack is available to non computer owners. Anyone?
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You are just talking about a demo, a prospect to purchase right? I fail to see the issue worthy of a post. The notes are essential but making an issue about getting or not getting a sample to feel the quality when you have the CD to see what's in them is the act of a quibbler in my opinion.
And to pick up on another point, I think Alex depends on a number of people there to produce the goods. It might be his baby, but it is their effort.
Sorry, must have had too little REM sleep
And to pick up on another point, I think Alex depends on a number of people there to produce the goods. It might be his baby, but it is their effort.
Sorry, must have had too little REM sleep
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I asked for them to send me some sample notes about 3 months ago, 2 days later I received the whole set of flight planning notes through the post... No probs!
Heading to Bristol on 17th Oct for Mod 1 brush up, you'll hear no complaints about them from me...
Heading to Bristol on 17th Oct for Mod 1 brush up, you'll hear no complaints about them from me...
PPSC (barstewards) went bust 2 days before I flew over from the US for a brush-up course with them. Bristol took me on at short notice, found me accommodation and tailored a course for those of us in the same boat. At the same time, a number of other schools offered to "help" but at a ridiculous price that was taking advantage of others misfortune and desperation. Many thanks, Alex, for your help and for getting me through all the exams first time.
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I asked Bristol if I could sit in on their brush up course after attending a lesser school. They gave me all the notes at a really good price and charged me a nominal amount to sit in... as it turned out they were running two classes of module one at the same time, so I could attend a session of met, go next door and do it again if I needed to.
I would not have passed all the exams if it hadnt been for them. As for using a CD instead of sending a great heavy wad of notes... saves on postage, saves the odd tree, makes sense. Welcome to the 21st century! Im sure its not beyond the abilities of your friend to get to a pc and have a look.
I would not have passed all the exams if it hadnt been for them. As for using a CD instead of sending a great heavy wad of notes... saves on postage, saves the odd tree, makes sense. Welcome to the 21st century! Im sure its not beyond the abilities of your friend to get to a pc and have a look.
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Rule out Bristol at your peril!!!
The demo CD is merely accepting the inevitable technology based future of learning. Bristol would undoubtedly send you some sample notes(identical to the CD) if requested so you can see the quality in a different format. Bristol have by far the best customer service I have thus encountered in the Aviation Industry and won hands down against their closest competitors.
When I stuffed up Met and Nav in Module 1 (73% and 74%) Alex said that Bristol would subtract the cost of a re-mark (£30 per exam) from the cost of Module 2 (effectively offering to pay for my shortcomings). As it was I still scored the same after the re-mark so didn't have the cheek to ask Bristol to foot the bill. Rest assured Bristol are a top notch school with excellent notes and very high pass rates........the rest is up to you!!
When I stuffed up Met and Nav in Module 1 (73% and 74%) Alex said that Bristol would subtract the cost of a re-mark (£30 per exam) from the cost of Module 2 (effectively offering to pay for my shortcomings). As it was I still scored the same after the re-mark so didn't have the cheek to ask Bristol to foot the bill. Rest assured Bristol are a top notch school with excellent notes and very high pass rates........the rest is up to you!!
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Hi all,
FFF said he was going to make this thread so I've kept an eye out for it. Everything he said was correct, except that I'm close to ruling them out. This is not quite true: I'm still deliberating and I think I'm going to have to give them and the others in the running a ring or a visit to confirm my first impressions.
While I appreciate that in distance learning the work you put in is the cruicial thing, I do think notes (and supplementary gizmos) that are compatible with the student's brain have got to be extremely influencial on success. I also think the availability/approachability of a school for guidance and admin-type info makes a difference to the pain threshold of boring exams!
Perhaps they just want to cut their overheads - which is to be encouraged - but grabbing one of a box of demos and sticking in a compliment slip would, to me, give the impression of a large, successful company who is not terribly interested in me or my custom. It would, if I didn't already know their terrific reputation, that is.
I have a pc and I had a look. It was a few weeks ago, so I'm going to do it again and come back to you tonight. However, while it was pretty impressive, I spend all day in front of a screen and don't wan't to extend that at all. Part of that time is editing reports and I therefore know from personal experience that I find it much harder to read and absorb material on a screen than the printed word.
I specifically requested notes. The CD's equivalent, I guess, though.
FFF said he was going to make this thread so I've kept an eye out for it. Everything he said was correct, except that I'm close to ruling them out. This is not quite true: I'm still deliberating and I think I'm going to have to give them and the others in the running a ring or a visit to confirm my first impressions.
While I appreciate that in distance learning the work you put in is the cruicial thing, I do think notes (and supplementary gizmos) that are compatible with the student's brain have got to be extremely influencial on success. I also think the availability/approachability of a school for guidance and admin-type info makes a difference to the pain threshold of boring exams!
Perhaps they just want to cut their overheads - which is to be encouraged - but grabbing one of a box of demos and sticking in a compliment slip would, to me, give the impression of a large, successful company who is not terribly interested in me or my custom. It would, if I didn't already know their terrific reputation, that is.
Im sure its not beyond the abilities of your friend to get to a pc and have a look.
Bristol would undoubtedly send you some sample notes(identical to the CD) if you requested
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IMHO you're being a bit precious about the whole thing penguina. No offence meant. At the end of the day you will struggle to find a bad word against them. I agree that the quality of the notes helps a great deal. But given the amount of praise heaped on the school from any corner I think you can assume the notes are decent (and they are excellent).
Anyway no doubt an entire set will be winging their way to you now after all this so please let us know what you think.
SK
Anyway no doubt an entire set will be winging their way to you now after all this so please let us know what you think.
SK
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Penguina,
The point is, as mentioned further up, that the notes are identical to the text on the CD. Unless your choice of school is based on 80gsm vs 100 then this is really a mole's mountain.
Take comfort from the fact that they are not desperate for your custom - book early!
The point is, as mentioned further up, that the notes are identical to the text on the CD. Unless your choice of school is based on 80gsm vs 100 then this is really a mole's mountain.
Take comfort from the fact that they are not desperate for your custom - book early!
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http://jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=487
http://jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=362
http://jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=280
http://jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=210
Everybody wake up.
Thanks to all at Bristol.
The funny bit was Alex doing his impression of an ADF receiver aerial.
Looked just like David Brent in "The Office" doing his Red Nose day dance.
Just hope I pass Gen Nav in December. My fault not Bristols.
http://jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=362
http://jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=280
http://jals.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=210
Everybody wake up.
Thanks to all at Bristol.
The funny bit was Alex doing his impression of an ADF receiver aerial.
Looked just like David Brent in "The Office" doing his Red Nose day dance.
Just hope I pass Gen Nav in December. My fault not Bristols.
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IMHO you're being a bit precious about the whole thing penguina
In my defence, it didn't even occur to me to bring this up on pprune until FFF showed an interest and then when I read the spirited rebuttals I thought I should try to make it clearer what he was trying to say.I've been criticised in wannabes before for agonising too much over what should be simple decisions. I just want to make absolutely sure I get this right - it's so important to me - and there's little enough to go on after all. Maybe someone with more common sense would just go on reputation and results and not worry quite so much.
Ah well, I think we've got our answer here, FFF: Bristol have not changed as far as quality is concerned and other changes in product are not affecting this.
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Hi All
I was recently at Bristol GS and I can tell you these guys and girls are constantly either on the telephone, answering e-mails or sending out courses.
Every day there is a stack of boxes awaiting the post and all this in a 8 hour day.......if they are lucky ! ! !
I would suggest that if they went back to the old system then they'd either have delays in providing info / courses or have to employ more staff and add that to the end product costs.....
I take your point about not having a computer to play the CD on...but most people do now...
From Bristols point of view I gues its a bit like the BBC starting to broadcast in colour in the 1960's.....how many people had colour TV's at that point.....how many people watch in black and white now ???
In a few years time there maywell be a post on here saying.....and they sent me the information on paper not a talking book ! ! !
Lastly may I say that Bristol are very very good at what they do. The proof is in the pudding.
Good luck whatever course provider you decide on !
I was recently at Bristol GS and I can tell you these guys and girls are constantly either on the telephone, answering e-mails or sending out courses.
Every day there is a stack of boxes awaiting the post and all this in a 8 hour day.......if they are lucky ! ! !
I would suggest that if they went back to the old system then they'd either have delays in providing info / courses or have to employ more staff and add that to the end product costs.....
I take your point about not having a computer to play the CD on...but most people do now...
From Bristols point of view I gues its a bit like the BBC starting to broadcast in colour in the 1960's.....how many people had colour TV's at that point.....how many people watch in black and white now ???
In a few years time there maywell be a post on here saying.....and they sent me the information on paper not a talking book ! ! !
Lastly may I say that Bristol are very very good at what they do. The proof is in the pudding.
Good luck whatever course provider you decide on !
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I am drawing to the end of module 2 with BGS, and I can say that I am pleased with the course. I have mostly worked from the notes for both modules, but I have used the computer program to look at the complex diagrams, such as engines, electrics etc. It helped no end. I also travel quite a lot on business, and have installed a second copy of the program on my work laptop. This has proved useful too.
In addition, I have done all the progress tests via the computer, being able to email the results, and get instant feedback. For those impatient as me, this facility is worth its weight in gold.
I would advise people to go to the Flyer show in November, where Alex will have all the notes for you to leaf through, and you can see the CD in action. It will also serve as a means by which to look at the other schools for comparison.
I actually drove down to Bristol (a 400 miles round-trip for me) to see Alex in person, and he took me through the notes, and CD. I think it would be a great mistake to rule out the school based on your perception of inadequate selling. If I were you, I would phone the school, and speak with Alex. When I was there for my module 1, he seemed to field a great many telephone enquiries, as well as seeing people coming in off the street.
PM me if you wish.
In addition, I have done all the progress tests via the computer, being able to email the results, and get instant feedback. For those impatient as me, this facility is worth its weight in gold.
I would advise people to go to the Flyer show in November, where Alex will have all the notes for you to leaf through, and you can see the CD in action. It will also serve as a means by which to look at the other schools for comparison.
I actually drove down to Bristol (a 400 miles round-trip for me) to see Alex in person, and he took me through the notes, and CD. I think it would be a great mistake to rule out the school based on your perception of inadequate selling. If I were you, I would phone the school, and speak with Alex. When I was there for my module 1, he seemed to field a great many telephone enquiries, as well as seeing people coming in off the street.
PM me if you wish.
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Hi,
I'm with Bristol at the moment studying mod 1. Very happy with the quality of notes and CD material too.
Infact, a pilot friend of mine who recommended the school was one of their students from a few years back (mid 90s).
Once I got my notes, my friend was thumbing through some of the notes. He remarked on the superb quality of the notes and CD material.
Regards.
Has "1 Happy customer".
I'm with Bristol at the moment studying mod 1. Very happy with the quality of notes and CD material too.
Infact, a pilot friend of mine who recommended the school was one of their students from a few years back (mid 90s).
Once I got my notes, my friend was thumbing through some of the notes. He remarked on the superb quality of the notes and CD material.
Regards.
Has "1 Happy customer".
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Just completed Mod 2 with BGS and waiting for the results. I have to say that the quality of notes, support and tuition is second to non.
It was interesting to note that the majority of people leaving the hall early in each exam were BGS students.
Would I choose them if I had to do all this again ? Without a doubt yes I would.
It was interesting to note that the majority of people leaving the hall early in each exam were BGS students.
Would I choose them if I had to do all this again ? Without a doubt yes I would.
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It was interesting to note that the majority of people leaving the hall early in each exam were BGS students.
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Bristol rocks!
I'm old (40's), haven't done any serious studying since "O" levels, and got the lot first time round with a good average mark thanks to Alex and his team at Bristol.
The written notes and supplementary CBT are excellent, both interesting and understandable, telephone and email support first class, and the ground school sessions consolidate everything nicely just prior to the exams.
I'm old (40's), haven't done any serious studying since "O" levels, and got the lot first time round with a good average mark thanks to Alex and his team at Bristol.
The written notes and supplementary CBT are excellent, both interesting and understandable, telephone and email support first class, and the ground school sessions consolidate everything nicely just prior to the exams.