Cardiff Wales Flying Club (CWFC) Bankrupt

[cwfc_instructor]

Yesterday, Cardiff Wales Flying Club closed it's doors and secured them with a metal bar. A notice was placed in the window saying they had ceased trading. That's the end of my instructing career at Cardiff then Any comments??

[Charlie Zulu]

Just trying to work out which one of the instructors have posted this message.

However yes I'll confirm that Cardiff Wales Flying Club ceased trading yesterday evening (Tuesday 5th October 2004).

Oh well I'll just have to do my flight planning at home before going down to fly (a privately owned aeroplane).

[cwfc_instructor]

Access to Aircraft

Hi CZ. How do you (and the other aircraft owners) propose to access your aircraft. The Fire Station are refusing access at the moment as a few people discovered this morning. It's a long walk from North Side, and there's a very busy road in the middle Also, since CWFC have ceased trading, your CWFC Airside Pass (ID Card) is legally no longer valid. Something to think about.

As for who I am - that's what pprune is all about

[speedbird_heavy]

I bet DB is having a field day down there stopping everyone who owns an aircraft from accessing southside.

I wonder if it will be possible to park private aircraft on stand 1, the north end of taxyway E or even the dissused road between them and access being gained from "Checkpoint Charlie"???

[cwfc_instructor]

Just spoke to a couple of ex-instructors from the Club. Apparently Aero's in Gloucester have already approached the airport to take over the lease. So, we may finally have a professional flying school at Cardiff. Long overdue. I wonder if they'll give me a job

[pipertommy]

So its finally happened!JUMPING WAY AHEAD do you think aeros would do commercial training? and where can i fly now ? Swansea any good ? or is it a case of waiting. I was going to start my imc in the next couple of weeks !! what will happen to the aircraft any groups forming?

[Somedaymaybe]

whats are we supposed to do, thats those of us who are near completion of PPLs, especially me i have already sat all of my exams and passed and have only around 15hrs left, how frustrating, also i have left some money in my account around £150 what am i to do to get that back???

Regards

SDM

[Charlie Zulu]

Well today I spoke to the airport.

They were having a meeting this afternoon in regards to private owners and groups accessing their aircraft southside.

They have informed us that in the interim our passes are valid and the Security team on the North Side will escort us to southside via airside transport, thus crossing the runway in their care.

Luckily for Air Traffic Control its not too nice a day today. I can see Air Traffic are going to love us soon! More champagne needed to send to Cardiff ATC at christmas time

I do feel sorry for the poor instructors at the flying club... it amazes me that it was the CFI's last day yesterday before going to fly nice shiny boeing jets for a living (as far as I could work out).

I too have heard the rumours in regards to Aeros. Not sure how true but it'd be fantastic!!! It'd be great to do my JAA CPL/IR conversion course(s) from an airport I'm so familiar with!!! Oh and I'll be able to rent a twin to keep my multi rating valid if Aeros or another commercial school do get the lease. Whahey.

All the best,

Charlie Zulu.

[cwfc_instructor]

whats are we supposed to do, thats those of us who are near completion of PPLs, especially me i have already sat all of my exams and passed and have only around 15hrs left, how frustrating, also i have left some money in my account around £150 what am i to do to get that back???

Do you know any good tunes. If so, i'd whistle them.

Top of the list of people owed woud be the VAT man, the airport and an aircraft leasing company (who just won a court case against the club). All of these are owed in excess of £20,000 each.

Next would be the fuel supplier.

Somewhere further down the line is us poor instructors who haven't been paid for several months.


Guess where you are in the list. And you wont be the only member to have lost the money in their account.

Also, we mustn't forget the admin and catering staff who are now unemployed.

[Charlie Zulu]

The moral of the story is...

NEVER EVER pay up front or have an account with major amount of credit at any flight training organisation / school / club.

This isn't the first nor the last club to cease trading.

It is the second one to go bang that I've been a member...

I haven't got a curse, really I don't!!!

[cwfc_instructor]

it amazes me that it was the CFI's last day yesterday before going to fly nice shiny boeing jets for a living (as far as I could work out).

Looking at Companies House Website, it appears that said CFI is the only registered Director of the Company.

Therefore, how long he's known the true financial status of the club could determine whether he gets to fly shiny boeing jets for real, or whether he just gets to dream about it whilst he watches them float past the bars on the window of his prison cell!

[Sensible]

Therefore, how long he's known the true financial status of the club could determine whether he gets to fly shiny boeing jets for real, or whether he just gets to dream about it whilst he watches them float past the bars on the window of his prison cell!

Ahh wishful thinking there I think. The sad fact of life is that a company operates at "arms length" away from individuals who are directors and it would only be an obvious and blatant crook who would be brought to book about his/her trading activities.

The reality is; get on with your life, find another job, write off monies owed because the reality is that the folks on the ground who are owed money wont see a penny unless maybe if they paid by credit card then the card provider may well make a refund. and repeat after me NEVER PAY IN ADVANCE FOR FLIGHT TRAINING!

[flower]

I found out about this last night ,I passed on what I knew straight away to ATC. Very few at the airport knew including the Fire Section who did let a couple of people in this morning but they do not have the resources to be expected to police the security gate southside.

A professional Flying School at the Airport would be superb and i hope the rumours are true, they have been circulating a few weeks now and there is a demand for it.

Good luck to everyone involved in the old Club, especially Mel.

Fingers crossed for something good coming out of the shambles it had become.

[Somedaymaybe]

I tell you something that has also really got my goat! about this whole affair, and in my eyes this just adds weight to the unprofessionalism of the CFI and his management of the club.

I and the other members of the club were not even given the courtesy of a phone call or letter from the club explaining that the club would be ceasing trading on said date.

All we got was an email the other week about a EGM to inform of the future plans of the club. Was this a fob off so we would stop asking questions, or will the meeting still go ahead.

The shame is from the time i started there to now, i have had good relationships with the instructors one inparticular, and the way that they were treated by the not to be named CFI was appalling, and through his miss management and lapse attitude, towards the club good people have lost there jobs, and i can only hope that the likes of the instructors and staff Deb's/Mel/PeteW will keep there jobs when or if the club takes on under new hands.

It is these guys that made the club a hit with the members.

In closing MR AM (CFI) i hope you enjoy your new job in your shiny jets, remember those of us who were part of your short step up that ladder, watch out for those snakes on route, cos as the game rules state you may someday have to start at square one!

[traumahawk71]

Its quite amazing how quickly bad news travels. However Im sure that it wont be long before another club starts (watch this space) and this time im sure it will be far better run and organised.

[Re-Heat]

Ahh wishful thinking there I think. The sad fact of life is that a company operates at "arms length" away from individuals who are directors and it would only be an obvious and blatant crook who would be brought to book about his/her trading activities.

That depends entirely upon what the court, liquidator and DTi conclude upon the conduct of the company. For creditors, including staff who are unpaid, the strongest position to be in is together, not disparate, so that together a claim can be made to the court-appointed liquidator. That includes all other parties mentioned who might have claims, and a court can draw up a full list of creditors.

I would be careful as to determine whether he has been forced into liquidation or has volutarily wound up the company - judging by the timing it appears that there is an element of choice on his part as to when he had terminated trading - a gut reaction would be that unless action is taken now, assets may be removed from the company and be out of reach of the creditors. I do not imply that in this case he may be trying to defraud creditors - it is something to be aware of.

The distinction is made between wrongful trading and fraudulent trading - the first being civil offence and the latter being criminal. That is for the court to decide. If the adverse court judgement sent the company to liquidate recently, then it would be less likely to be fraudulent trading to defraud the creditors.

I'd move on as well though, otherwise you could spend ages getting bitter and not moving forward in life! As a creditor among many, your rights are set in statute, and a creditors list will place you in an order of payment: the pro-forma placement was I believe recently changed to place employees higher up that listing than in the past? Perhaps someone else could confirm.

This does is not of course advice - go to a lawyer and accountant to get specific advice in this situation. I have written only a general note on liquidation.

Why didn't you leave when you weren't paid though? I would move at the first instance of that occurring. Best of luck for the future!

[traumahawk71]

Its quite amazing how quickly bad news travels. However Im sure that it wont be long before another club starts (watch this space) and this time im sure it will be far better run and organised.

[pipertommy]

I think everyone should look to the future! This is possibly a blessing for the club (members and staff),IF a new " professional school " moves in and everything starts from scratch such as training c.p.l/ir,a/c,flyouts,club nights ect.But i guess
this is "IF" at the moment ?

[birdlady]

Hi All

I would just like to say - Im really really really sorry for those who lost money. I had the same with my first flying school - went bankrupt shortly after I did my PPL and a lot of the students lost money and I mean big money. For example, two of the students lost over 30 000 pounds. OUCHHHH. Nothing ever came of it the owners were never brought to justice.

Ciao
BL

[nasib]

flower wrote:

"A professional Flying School at the Airport would be superb and i hope the rumours are true, they have been circulating a few weeks now and there is a demand for it."


And I suppose ATC will cope with all that entails? Holds and approaches at pre booked times and an on demand instrument approach every time an aircraft returns from a training flight?

It was good talking today. Have not heard "the" voice for a long time. Was beginning to suffer withdrawal symptoms!

Nasib