What is PIC???
Thread Starter
Joined: Jul 2004
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From: Stavanger, NORWAY
What is PIC???
Can somebody tell me what PIC is? And how I can get 500 hrs of for the APTL? I was wondering if being an instructor will count towards the PIC... Say that I get 250-275 hrs TT during my licensing stages and then go on instructing for 1200 hrs TT. Where do I get my PIC during the process? Hope someone can help out 
P.S. i've already searched thru the forums and there was a huge debate of whether an FO was better than an Instructor with the same TT... that didn't help very much :P
P.S. i've already searched thru the forums and there was a huge debate of whether an FO was better than an Instructor with the same TT... that didn't help very much :P
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 548
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From: Not a huge sand box but very nice winters anymore
If you are instructing then all that time is PIC . If you are solo then your time is PIC but if you are being instructed you cannot count that time as PIC it is dual or second pilot.
PM me if you have more questions
cheers
PM me if you have more questions
cheers
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 761
Likes: 22
From: England
PIC
Not sure why you are after 500hrs PIC for an ATPL. I have pasted in the ATPL requirements from FCL1 for you. 1.280 is the relevent bit.
JAR–FCL 1.265 Minimum age An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall be at least 21 years of age.
JAR–FCL 1.270 Medical fitness An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall hold a valid Class 1 medical certificate. In order to exercise the privileges of the ATPL(A) a valid Class 1 medical certificate shall be held. [Amdt. 1, 01.06.00]
JAR–FCL 1.275 Privileges and conditions (a) Privileges. Subject to any other conditions specified in JARs, the privileges of the holder of an ATPL(A) are to: (1) exercise all the privileges of the holder of a PPL(A), a CPL(A) and an IR(A); and (2) act as pilot-in-command or co-pilot in aeroplanes engaged in air transportation. (b) Conditions. An applicant for an ATPL(A) who has complied with the conditions specified in
JAR–FCL 1.265, 1.270 and 1.280 through 1.295 shall have fulfilled the requirements for the issue of an ATPL(A) containing a type rating for the aeroplane type used on the skill test.
JAR–FCL 1.280 Experience and crediting (See JAR–FCL 1.050(a)(3)) (a) An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall have completed as a pilot of aeroplanes at least 1500 hours of flight time (see also JAR-FCL 1.050(a)(3)). [Of the 1 500 hours flight time, up to 100 hours of flight time may have been completed in FS and FNPT of which a maximum of 25 hours may have benn completed in FNPT,] including at least: (1) 500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes type certificated in accordance with the JAR/FAR?E5 Transport category or the JAR/FAR?E3 Commuter category, or BCAR or AIR 2051; (2) 250 hours either as pilot-in-command or at least 100 hours as pilot-in-command and 150 hours as co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilot-in-command the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command provided that the method of supervision is acceptable to the Authority; (3) 200 hours of cross-country flight time of which at least 100 hours shall be as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot performing under the supervision of the pilot-in-command the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command, provided that the method of supervision is acceptable to the Authority; (4) 75 hours of instrument time of which not more than 30 hours may be instrument ground time; and (5) 100 hours of night flight as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot. (b) (1) Holders of a pilot licence or equivalent document for other categories of aircraft will be credited with flight time in such other categories of aircraft as set out in JAR–FCL 1.155 except flight time in helicopters which will be credited up to 50% of all the flight time requirements of sub-paragraph (a). (2) Holders of a flight engineer licence will be credited with 50% of the flight engineer time up to a maximum credit of 250 hours. This 250 hours may be credited against the 1 500 hours requirement of sub-paragraph (a), and the 500 hours requirement of sub-paragraph (a)(1), provided that the total credit given against any of these sub-paragraphs does not exceed 250 hours. (c) The experience required shall be completed before the skill test given in JAR–FCL 1.295 is taken. [Amdt. 1, 01.06.00; Amdt. 3, 01.07.03]
You can find the FCL1 part 1 document on line at the JAA web site here http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jarsec1.html
JAR–FCL 1.265 Minimum age An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall be at least 21 years of age.
JAR–FCL 1.270 Medical fitness An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall hold a valid Class 1 medical certificate. In order to exercise the privileges of the ATPL(A) a valid Class 1 medical certificate shall be held. [Amdt. 1, 01.06.00]
JAR–FCL 1.275 Privileges and conditions (a) Privileges. Subject to any other conditions specified in JARs, the privileges of the holder of an ATPL(A) are to: (1) exercise all the privileges of the holder of a PPL(A), a CPL(A) and an IR(A); and (2) act as pilot-in-command or co-pilot in aeroplanes engaged in air transportation. (b) Conditions. An applicant for an ATPL(A) who has complied with the conditions specified in
JAR–FCL 1.265, 1.270 and 1.280 through 1.295 shall have fulfilled the requirements for the issue of an ATPL(A) containing a type rating for the aeroplane type used on the skill test.
JAR–FCL 1.280 Experience and crediting (See JAR–FCL 1.050(a)(3)) (a) An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall have completed as a pilot of aeroplanes at least 1500 hours of flight time (see also JAR-FCL 1.050(a)(3)). [Of the 1 500 hours flight time, up to 100 hours of flight time may have been completed in FS and FNPT of which a maximum of 25 hours may have benn completed in FNPT,] including at least: (1) 500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes type certificated in accordance with the JAR/FAR?E5 Transport category or the JAR/FAR?E3 Commuter category, or BCAR or AIR 2051; (2) 250 hours either as pilot-in-command or at least 100 hours as pilot-in-command and 150 hours as co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilot-in-command the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command provided that the method of supervision is acceptable to the Authority; (3) 200 hours of cross-country flight time of which at least 100 hours shall be as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot performing under the supervision of the pilot-in-command the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command, provided that the method of supervision is acceptable to the Authority; (4) 75 hours of instrument time of which not more than 30 hours may be instrument ground time; and (5) 100 hours of night flight as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot. (b) (1) Holders of a pilot licence or equivalent document for other categories of aircraft will be credited with flight time in such other categories of aircraft as set out in JAR–FCL 1.155 except flight time in helicopters which will be credited up to 50% of all the flight time requirements of sub-paragraph (a). (2) Holders of a flight engineer licence will be credited with 50% of the flight engineer time up to a maximum credit of 250 hours. This 250 hours may be credited against the 1 500 hours requirement of sub-paragraph (a), and the 500 hours requirement of sub-paragraph (a)(1), provided that the total credit given against any of these sub-paragraphs does not exceed 250 hours. (c) The experience required shall be completed before the skill test given in JAR–FCL 1.295 is taken. [Amdt. 1, 01.06.00; Amdt. 3, 01.07.03]
You can find the FCL1 part 1 document on line at the JAA web site here http://www.jaa.nl/section1/jarsec1.html
Last edited by Miles Magister; 15th August 2004 at 17:08.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 419
Likes: 4
From: Westward TV
As stated before TT is total time. This consists of all PIC (Pilot in Command), Co-Pilot and Dual (When you received instruction).
For an ATPL issue, you must have 1500 Hours TT, of which at least 500 must be PIC.
If you are an instructor, then when you are instructing, you are the commander of the aircraft and log all the time as PIC.
OK, your lucky and get a job as a First Officer on a multi crew aircraft. When you are the Pilot Flying (PF) you log the time as PICUS (Pilot in Command Under Supervision) and the Captain countersigns your logbook. When you are the Pilot Non Flying (PNF) you log the time as Co-Pilot or P2. Only the PICUS counts towards your total PIC time. Clear? thought not.
Also, for ATPL issue you need to have 500 hours experience in a multi crew aircraft,100 hours night flying (either as PIC or dual or P2). Oh, and passed an ATPL skills test. If you are working for an airline, this is normally part of the LPC(Licence Proficieny Check). Still with me? Good.
The upshot is, you will not get the multi crew hours unless you have worked as a FO (First Officer). So no ATPL will be issued.
For an ATPL issue, you must have 1500 Hours TT, of which at least 500 must be PIC.
If you are an instructor, then when you are instructing, you are the commander of the aircraft and log all the time as PIC.
OK, your lucky and get a job as a First Officer on a multi crew aircraft. When you are the Pilot Flying (PF) you log the time as PICUS (Pilot in Command Under Supervision) and the Captain countersigns your logbook. When you are the Pilot Non Flying (PNF) you log the time as Co-Pilot or P2. Only the PICUS counts towards your total PIC time. Clear? thought not.
Also, for ATPL issue you need to have 500 hours experience in a multi crew aircraft,100 hours night flying (either as PIC or dual or P2). Oh, and passed an ATPL skills test. If you are working for an airline, this is normally part of the LPC(Licence Proficieny Check). Still with me? Good.
The upshot is, you will not get the multi crew hours unless you have worked as a FO (First Officer). So no ATPL will be issued.
