IR where?
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
From: BFS
IR where?
The time has come to decide on an IR provider. Has anyone any experience or views on the following please:
Tayflite
Leeds
PAT
Westflight
Airways
Starting to brick it a bit now, know too well consequences of a bad choice at this stage!!
Cheers
SK
Tayflite
Leeds
PAT
Westflight
Airways
Starting to brick it a bit now, know too well consequences of a bad choice at this stage!!
Cheers
SK
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 39
Likes: 0
From: ireland
PAT at Bournemouth mate!! Its the best decision you will make at this stage of your career. Mike Wheeler is one of the best...... if not the best instructors in the UK at the moment.The others are excellent also.........but Mike is the man!!!!!!!
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 340
Likes: 0
From: Saaaaaaffffhampton
IR providers
PAT without a doubt,
They saved my ass from what would have been a disaster with another provider.
Drew, patient as a saint , had to be with me, mike and Gary provided good advice.
Ops guy saves you some work too, really helpful.
you must not forget the sandwich snaffling Bruno either
Go there you will not regret it.
p.s. Hi Steve, if your reading
Have fun
They saved my ass from what would have been a disaster with another provider.
Drew, patient as a saint , had to be with me, mike and Gary provided good advice.
Ops guy saves you some work too, really helpful.
you must not forget the sandwich snaffling Bruno either
Go there you will not regret it.
p.s. Hi Steve, if your reading
Have fun
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: london
just finished IR and CPL with PAT. Can not stress how easy they made the whole process, set up is great, instructors are spot on.... whole thing was very enjoyable... full pass on both first time, only 0.4 hrs over.... choose PAT you will not be sorry!
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
From: BFS
PAT...interesting.
Up till now had been fairly sure would go to airways - cost being its main advantage over PAT, and also I believe it too has an excellent reputation. Been there but not to PAT, and running out of time (and cash!!).
Anyone experienced with Airways. From what I see here may be worth saving the rest and going PAT.
Many thanks so far guys, sure you all know how nerve wracking this bit is!
SK
Up till now had been fairly sure would go to airways - cost being its main advantage over PAT, and also I believe it too has an excellent reputation. Been there but not to PAT, and running out of time (and cash!!).
Anyone experienced with Airways. From what I see here may be worth saving the rest and going PAT.
Many thanks so far guys, sure you all know how nerve wracking this bit is!
SK
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,450
Likes: 5
From: UK
I've not flown with Airways but many of my colleagues at work have done and all rate the place very highly. You'll notice that their advertising is very low-key (almost invisible) and there's a reason for that....their reputation is excellent and have no need to shout about it.
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: NW England
I don't know the names of all the flying schools in the UK, but by Airways, I assume you mean Airways Flight Training at Exeter?
I did both my CPL/ME and IR with them and they are excellent. They don't ask for any money up front either. They got me through my CPL/ME in 3 weeks and my IR in 4 weeks, both first-time passes, and that's with UK weather!
The photographs on the walls are testament to their reputation. They are a fantastic, friendly bunch with YOUR interests at heart and I will never hesitate to recommend them to anyone.
As someone mentioned above, if in doubt, visit the school beforehand and talk to the people currently being trained there.
Regards
LoopGuru
I did both my CPL/ME and IR with them and they are excellent. They don't ask for any money up front either. They got me through my CPL/ME in 3 weeks and my IR in 4 weeks, both first-time passes, and that's with UK weather!
The photographs on the walls are testament to their reputation. They are a fantastic, friendly bunch with YOUR interests at heart and I will never hesitate to recommend them to anyone.
As someone mentioned above, if in doubt, visit the school beforehand and talk to the people currently being trained there.
Regards
LoopGuru
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 36
Likes: 0
From: Hereford UK
To all interested in this thread, and contemplating where to train,
Any future employer who gives you command of an aircraft will expect you to be responsible for taking your own decisions based on accurate facts, and sound judgement. Regrettably, far too many people still base their decision on how to spend many thousands of either hard earned or borrowed £’s on the subjective views of others rather than investigating for themselves.
If you really want to make a good decision you must be prepared to visit all of your preferred FTO’s and ask a lot of questions. Then, try creating a simple matrix using a scoring system.
These are just some of the criteria you might consider :-
Location
Ø Availability and cost of suitable local accommodation
Ø Car parking and other associated costs
Ø Distance and travel costs from home
Base Airport
Ø Number of runways available - always into / out of wind
Ø Frequency of commercial / scheduled traffic and potential for associated delays
Ø Proximity to controlled airspace and other IF training locations
Ø Landing / approach training fees, costs, included or extras
Training Aircraft
Ø Sufficient to ensure continuity
Ø Maintenance arrangements in case of unexpected tech’s
Ø Turbocharged for rapid climb to airways during IF training
Ø De/Anti iced for all year round training (icing at FL060 in summer is not uncommon)
Ø Instrument fits and conformity between fleet.
Documentation, Facilities and Training Material
Ø Training manuals – Lesson plans for ground school
Ø Quality manual, ask to see the feedback forms from previous students
Ø Ground school / Briefing arrangements
Ø Additional study material supplied
Ø Access to synthetic training devices, availability and cost
Ø Briefing rooms / adequacy and sole occupation
Ø Security of facilities owned or rented / borrowed / shared
Instructors and Training methods
Ø Professional Instructors (3000+ hours) or recently qualified and hours building
Ø Instructor daily workload, students per Instructor per day / week
Ø What happens if you, or another student in your group is ill for some days ?
Ø Ratio of airborne hours to briefing / debriefing / ground school.
Ø Number and type of approaches / departures flown during course
Ø Who would be your Instructor, meet him/her (you will be in intimate proximity in a stressful cockpit environment for what seems like a long time – can you respect this person?)
Ø Instructor training record, not just first time passes – were they achieved in minimum hours ?
Costs
Ø Payment arrangements
Ø Contingencies – any hidden costs
Ø Training over-run costs (you might get a partial)
Ø Overall anticipated cost.
The list can go on and on, but it is vital to take the time to do it properly. These pages are full of the gripes and moans of people who decided to spend their (or someone elses) money without thorough and complete investigation. It takes time, and you should arrange to spend at least half a day with the FTO, additionally talking to current and past students “offline” to verify your observations.
It may also be true that those who need to continually need to advertise also have the most difficulty in filling their available training places. There are many excellent establishments who don’t need a large marketing budget, and simply just get on with quietly delivering excellent training to excellent students for reasonable costs.
Apologies for the length of the above, and I’m sure that others will like to add – debate further.
Good training, good flying and make your own luck
cfb
Any future employer who gives you command of an aircraft will expect you to be responsible for taking your own decisions based on accurate facts, and sound judgement. Regrettably, far too many people still base their decision on how to spend many thousands of either hard earned or borrowed £’s on the subjective views of others rather than investigating for themselves.
If you really want to make a good decision you must be prepared to visit all of your preferred FTO’s and ask a lot of questions. Then, try creating a simple matrix using a scoring system.
These are just some of the criteria you might consider :-
Location
Ø Availability and cost of suitable local accommodation
Ø Car parking and other associated costs
Ø Distance and travel costs from home
Base Airport
Ø Number of runways available - always into / out of wind
Ø Frequency of commercial / scheduled traffic and potential for associated delays
Ø Proximity to controlled airspace and other IF training locations
Ø Landing / approach training fees, costs, included or extras
Training Aircraft
Ø Sufficient to ensure continuity
Ø Maintenance arrangements in case of unexpected tech’s
Ø Turbocharged for rapid climb to airways during IF training
Ø De/Anti iced for all year round training (icing at FL060 in summer is not uncommon)
Ø Instrument fits and conformity between fleet.
Documentation, Facilities and Training Material
Ø Training manuals – Lesson plans for ground school
Ø Quality manual, ask to see the feedback forms from previous students
Ø Ground school / Briefing arrangements
Ø Additional study material supplied
Ø Access to synthetic training devices, availability and cost
Ø Briefing rooms / adequacy and sole occupation
Ø Security of facilities owned or rented / borrowed / shared
Instructors and Training methods
Ø Professional Instructors (3000+ hours) or recently qualified and hours building
Ø Instructor daily workload, students per Instructor per day / week
Ø What happens if you, or another student in your group is ill for some days ?
Ø Ratio of airborne hours to briefing / debriefing / ground school.
Ø Number and type of approaches / departures flown during course
Ø Who would be your Instructor, meet him/her (you will be in intimate proximity in a stressful cockpit environment for what seems like a long time – can you respect this person?)
Ø Instructor training record, not just first time passes – were they achieved in minimum hours ?
Costs
Ø Payment arrangements
Ø Contingencies – any hidden costs
Ø Training over-run costs (you might get a partial)
Ø Overall anticipated cost.
The list can go on and on, but it is vital to take the time to do it properly. These pages are full of the gripes and moans of people who decided to spend their (or someone elses) money without thorough and complete investigation. It takes time, and you should arrange to spend at least half a day with the FTO, additionally talking to current and past students “offline” to verify your observations.
It may also be true that those who need to continually need to advertise also have the most difficulty in filling their available training places. There are many excellent establishments who don’t need a large marketing budget, and simply just get on with quietly delivering excellent training to excellent students for reasonable costs.
Apologies for the length of the above, and I’m sure that others will like to add – debate further.
Good training, good flying and make your own luck
cfb
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Never diverting!
PAT stands for Professional Air Training. They are basically an outfit in renovated WW2 buildings at Bournemouth airport who do nothing else than CPL/IR's and are good at it in my humble opinion. http://www.professionalairtraining.co.uk/ The fact that BOH is a CAA examiners centre is also very handy as you train the right routes but also have access to last minute examiner availability.
In addition to CFB his excellent checklist you do have to enter a post for lost lunches at PAT. The FTO dog Bruno (if he is still there!) is legendary well trained in stealing your lunch box
In addition to CFB his excellent checklist you do have to enter a post for lost lunches at PAT. The FTO dog Bruno (if he is still there!) is legendary well trained in stealing your lunch box
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
From: TYLOS
I like LoopGuru have nothing but praise for Airways at Exeter. I finished my IR at the back end of April with a first time pass and they were excellent. Took just iover 6 weeks and the weather was against me the whole way!
The instructors are all experienced military/airline guys with thousands of hrs, aircraft are all in good condition, no problems with availability and it is a friendly and relaxed place to learn. Also, very importantly, the price they quote is the price you will pay. You get the hrs for the course (50 or 55), all landings, all approaches, VAT, Test Hire, Plates, Equipment, Car parking, Tea, Coffee, everything! the only addition is of course the dreaded CAA fee and Accom!
Like LoopGuru, I wasn't expected to settle the bill untill after I had passed the IR test which was good for my cash flow!
Excellent job guys, keep it up.....
Lookoutbelow
The instructors are all experienced military/airline guys with thousands of hrs, aircraft are all in good condition, no problems with availability and it is a friendly and relaxed place to learn. Also, very importantly, the price they quote is the price you will pay. You get the hrs for the course (50 or 55), all landings, all approaches, VAT, Test Hire, Plates, Equipment, Car parking, Tea, Coffee, everything! the only addition is of course the dreaded CAA fee and Accom!
Like LoopGuru, I wasn't expected to settle the bill untill after I had passed the IR test which was good for my cash flow!
Excellent job guys, keep it up.....
Lookoutbelow
Thread Starter
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
From: BFS
Just one more about Airways please guys.
I had heard that a large proportion of their students are ex military chaps. If you don't mind me asking lookout and loopguru, were you?
Many Many thanks to all who have replied. It really is a great help.
SK
PS Any views on Bonus aviation?
I had heard that a large proportion of their students are ex military chaps. If you don't mind me asking lookout and loopguru, were you?
Many Many thanks to all who have replied. It really is a great help.
SK
PS Any views on Bonus aviation?
Last edited by silverknapper; 28th June 2004 at 22:50.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
From: UK
IR Training
Sitting my 2nd modual of atpl's next week and am looking to book my IR to start in November/December.
Im just wondering where to go and am after some advise,
My options at the moment are ......
1, Bristol Flight Center
2, Aeros
3, Airways
4, PAT
I dont want this to turn into a "slagging" match but all comments will be greatly recieved.... Thanx all
Im just wondering where to go and am after some advise,
My options at the moment are ......
1, Bristol Flight Center
2, Aeros
3, Airways
4, PAT
I dont want this to turn into a "slagging" match but all comments will be greatly recieved.... Thanx all
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 377
Likes: 0
From: Never diverting!
Just read rather than ask please, this question has been asked a 1000 time. If go to the top of the screen you will find a search function: use it! 
Could you edit your post afterwards and tell us a good joke instead?
ps Sorry to many sectors
Could you edit your post afterwards and tell us a good joke instead?
ps Sorry to many sectors