getting fATPL through modular CPL/IR
Join Date: May 2003
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CPL + IR + Multi rating + MCC = fATPL
So, CPL and IR (which are two separate flying courses of 25 and 50 hours respectively, if done in that order) takes you most of the way to fATPL. You will usually do the Multi Rating (6 hours minimum) and CPL before the IR as having the CPL gives you 5 hours off the IR (otherwise its 55 hours) and if you want to get a fATPL you will want to do the multi IR, as that is what airlines will obviously want.
You don't need an IR to be a flying instructor but you do need an Instructor rating, which is another 30 hour course. Work with only a CPL will otherwise be very limited. In theory you can do aerial work which does not require transport of passengers, but in practice...... You could do pleasure flights but only if employed by a suitable organisation with the appropriate Air Operators' Certificate.
<<edit: The Flying Instructor course is 150 hours - 30 hours of flying, yes - but a 120 hours of groundschool. I comment only for thoughts of budget, both financial and time. Done properly, the 120 hours of groundschool will take an extra three to four weeks of classroom time and will need to be paid for.>>
So, CPL and IR (which are two separate flying courses of 25 and 50 hours respectively, if done in that order) takes you most of the way to fATPL. You will usually do the Multi Rating (6 hours minimum) and CPL before the IR as having the CPL gives you 5 hours off the IR (otherwise its 55 hours) and if you want to get a fATPL you will want to do the multi IR, as that is what airlines will obviously want.
You don't need an IR to be a flying instructor but you do need an Instructor rating, which is another 30 hour course. Work with only a CPL will otherwise be very limited. In theory you can do aerial work which does not require transport of passengers, but in practice...... You could do pleasure flights but only if employed by a suitable organisation with the appropriate Air Operators' Certificate.
<<edit: The Flying Instructor course is 150 hours - 30 hours of flying, yes - but a 120 hours of groundschool. I comment only for thoughts of budget, both financial and time. Done properly, the 120 hours of groundschool will take an extra three to four weeks of classroom time and will need to be paid for.>>
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I am puzzled that someone has edited my post
What is going on here??
fhchiang
Integrated is considerably more expensive and covers all the flying and all the exams (not the Instructor rating) from zero up to fATPL. I can't qote exact figures but a browse through some of the training school web sites will give a feel for costs, though you need to build in contingencies for both time and cost, on the basis that your CPL, IR or multi may take more flying hours than the minimum. Even then the integrated will be costlier.
As the anonymous editor has pointed out, the Flying instructor course lasts about 5 weeks and includes a considerable ground school element.
I am puzzled that someone has edited my post
What is going on here??
fhchiang
Integrated is considerably more expensive and covers all the flying and all the exams (not the Instructor rating) from zero up to fATPL. I can't qote exact figures but a browse through some of the training school web sites will give a feel for costs, though you need to build in contingencies for both time and cost, on the basis that your CPL, IR or multi may take more flying hours than the minimum. Even then the integrated will be costlier.
As the anonymous editor has pointed out, the Flying instructor course lasts about 5 weeks and includes a considerable ground school element.
Join Date: Jun 2002
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Hi TheFlyingDJ,
Morse isn't a required exam now under JAR licencing.
Although it is very handy to know for when identing navaids... it only takes a few hours a night for a week to learn pretty comprehensively (well the letters anyway).
I'd use the Ten Miles Out / Elephants In Straw Huts / etc method to learn morse...
T -
M --
O ---
E .
I ..
S ...
H ....
F .._. (Beethovens 5th)
etc...
Yup I went and learnt it just after my PPL before starting the IMC course. I used a freeware dos computer program but I can't find it now (around 6 years ago).
Just a comment... the VFR and IFR RT exams are both JAR Theory exams... so each of them are individual exams for the JAR-FCL ATPL Examinations.
Also you don't require an MCC to say you have an fATPL... well in reality the fATPL doesn't exist all it says is you have a JAR CPL/IR with the ATPL Subjects Passed.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Morse isn't a required exam now under JAR licencing.
Although it is very handy to know for when identing navaids... it only takes a few hours a night for a week to learn pretty comprehensively (well the letters anyway).
I'd use the Ten Miles Out / Elephants In Straw Huts / etc method to learn morse...
T -
M --
O ---
E .
I ..
S ...
H ....
F .._. (Beethovens 5th)
etc...
Yup I went and learnt it just after my PPL before starting the IMC course. I used a freeware dos computer program but I can't find it now (around 6 years ago).
Just a comment... the VFR and IFR RT exams are both JAR Theory exams... so each of them are individual exams for the JAR-FCL ATPL Examinations.
Also you don't require an MCC to say you have an fATPL... well in reality the fATPL doesn't exist all it says is you have a JAR CPL/IR with the ATPL Subjects Passed.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Jet Blast Rat
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For a simple answer, fhchiang, yes it would be cheaper.
From the same school as might offer integrated, around £10,000 saved when I was looking into this, probably more now. Shop around and it may be more. To do all training from zero in the UK can be as little as £40,000, realistically and with all CAA fees, landing fees and VAT included (watch that, some include VAT and landing fees, some don't). You also have a choice to change provider between modules if you are not happy, and don't have to pay upfront (I have friends who lost over £14,000 that way. I lost nearly £3,000).
Be sure to visit a variety of schools, look at training material, ask students about the course (and the training materials - some are told by their instructors not to use the manuals as they are inadequate). Talk to staff, see if you could be happy in that town, in that school.
Good luck!
From the same school as might offer integrated, around £10,000 saved when I was looking into this, probably more now. Shop around and it may be more. To do all training from zero in the UK can be as little as £40,000, realistically and with all CAA fees, landing fees and VAT included (watch that, some include VAT and landing fees, some don't). You also have a choice to change provider between modules if you are not happy, and don't have to pay upfront (I have friends who lost over £14,000 that way. I lost nearly £3,000).
Be sure to visit a variety of schools, look at training material, ask students about the course (and the training materials - some are told by their instructors not to use the manuals as they are inadequate). Talk to staff, see if you could be happy in that town, in that school.
Good luck!
