Job Hunting?
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 12
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From: Herefordshire
Job Hunting?
Firstly, some background on me. I'm hold a PPL and am currently looking into ATPL ground studies with a view to doing the CPL and FI, then instructing part time while keeping the day job. After that I'll see how it goes.
My question, and it may be a contentious one, is that, given the views expressed on pprune about the difficulties experienced in getting a job, and given that most pilots coming out of the integrated and modular training routes are self selecting (ie. no pre-selection, if you've got the money, motivation and skill you'll get there), how many job candidates are turned down because, at interview, they don't shine?
My question is motivated by my experience interviewing Graduate & PostGraduate candidates in my day job. I'm often astounded at the lack of self awareness of a large proportion of candidates who on paper are excellent but when you meet them seem to lack both social skills (yes I'm talking about scientists and enginners
) and that certain spark that ensures they stand out from the crowd.
Now, before you all flame me
, I'm not claiming that all commercial pilot candidates are going to be the same as the graduate scientists and engineers. In fact I have no experience of such job candidates. I would however be interested to hear the views of those who have.
cheers
Al
My question, and it may be a contentious one, is that, given the views expressed on pprune about the difficulties experienced in getting a job, and given that most pilots coming out of the integrated and modular training routes are self selecting (ie. no pre-selection, if you've got the money, motivation and skill you'll get there), how many job candidates are turned down because, at interview, they don't shine?
My question is motivated by my experience interviewing Graduate & PostGraduate candidates in my day job. I'm often astounded at the lack of self awareness of a large proportion of candidates who on paper are excellent but when you meet them seem to lack both social skills (yes I'm talking about scientists and enginners
) and that certain spark that ensures they stand out from the crowd.Now, before you all flame me
, I'm not claiming that all commercial pilot candidates are going to be the same as the graduate scientists and engineers. In fact I have no experience of such job candidates. I would however be interested to hear the views of those who have.cheers
Al
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Joined: Feb 1997
Posts: 4,910
Likes: 184
From: Duit On Mon Dei
There is possibly an element of that. Some folks don't realise that you do have to do some research into the company you are doing an interview for.
I would say at the moment the biggest reason why folks straight out of flight school aren't getting many jobs is competition from more experienced pilots. A fresh graduate from flight school is now competing against a flight instructor who's been quietly flogging away teaching folks to fly and now has maybe 500-1000 hours or so. Also, the graduate is competing against a person who's been flying night freight in a Shed or F27 for the last couple of years. That person now has 500-1500 turbine multi crew hours. Also, there's the jet rated pilot that's just been made redundant because their company just went broke. That's who the graduate is up against right now.
I would say at the moment the biggest reason why folks straight out of flight school aren't getting many jobs is competition from more experienced pilots. A fresh graduate from flight school is now competing against a flight instructor who's been quietly flogging away teaching folks to fly and now has maybe 500-1000 hours or so. Also, the graduate is competing against a person who's been flying night freight in a Shed or F27 for the last couple of years. That person now has 500-1500 turbine multi crew hours. Also, there's the jet rated pilot that's just been made redundant because their company just went broke. That's who the graduate is up against right now.
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2000
Aviation Qualifications: CPL
Posts: 14,480
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From: UK
Interview technique
I once interviewed somebody for a job in an airworthiness office. After initial pleasantries about his hobbies, background, etc. I started probing gently about how good his basic theory was:-
(Me): Could you tell me how you'd work out the main flying limitations on a fixed wing aeroplane?
(Him): I'd ask the manufacturer.
(Me): Well that's one approach, but I like to know that my people know how to do it themselves, could you explain the main procedures by which you'd determine Va, Vf and Vne?
(Him): I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
(Me, assuming interview nerves): Okay, let's start from basics. There's a whiteboard behind you, could you please draw the basic V-N diagram for me?
(Him, standing up): I don't know that you are expecting for the salary you are offering (leaves interview room)
(Me, to rest of interview panel): Well, that went well. Anybody for an early cup of tea?
- According to the chap's CV he had degree level qualifications in aeronautical engineering and a professional aircrew licence !
G
(Me): Could you tell me how you'd work out the main flying limitations on a fixed wing aeroplane?
(Him): I'd ask the manufacturer.
(Me): Well that's one approach, but I like to know that my people know how to do it themselves, could you explain the main procedures by which you'd determine Va, Vf and Vne?
(Him): I'm sorry, I don't understand the question.
(Me, assuming interview nerves): Okay, let's start from basics. There's a whiteboard behind you, could you please draw the basic V-N diagram for me?
(Him, standing up): I don't know that you are expecting for the salary you are offering (leaves interview room)
(Me, to rest of interview panel): Well, that went well. Anybody for an early cup of tea?
- According to the chap's CV he had degree level qualifications in aeronautical engineering and a professional aircrew licence !
G
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 137
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From: Europe
I think it's on this website somewhere that somebody made the point that in this day and age of locked cockpits that it is even more important that flight crew can get along with each other and that this is a significant part of the interview process.
I'd just act normal and relaxed and put my skills forward with a slight tend toward modest rather than been cocky.
I'd just act normal and relaxed and put my skills forward with a slight tend toward modest rather than been cocky.
you are actually talking about!Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 6
From: Suffolk UK
Given that most selection procedures actually do pre-select people (through application forms or CVs) of similar qualifications and capabilities, and given that there are many more CPL/IR graduates than jobs available for them, it follows that a significant number more than are needed will be invited to interview in an effort to select the best available from a large pool. Needless to say, the majority will fail - at least at that attempt. The fact that the schools continually graduate more pilots than the industry can absorb suggests that many will continue to fail until they finally give up.
The reasons for an individual's failure can be many and varied, but a lack of self-awareness may be one of them, just as you found in your experience.
Recent selection processes involving Wannabes at BACX, FlyBe, Britannia and others back up my statement.
Scroggs
The reasons for an individual's failure can be many and varied, but a lack of self-awareness may be one of them, just as you found in your experience.
Recent selection processes involving Wannabes at BACX, FlyBe, Britannia and others back up my statement.
Scroggs
