Flight Training Europe, Jerez

[grafity]

The place does seem nice I have to admit but I'm only getting out of school now so it'll take me the guts of a year if I push for it, with medicals aptitude testing and fund raising.

Sorry didn't get back to you eire_boy about the seminar. What did you think? I was at the 2 o'clock. It was an interesting enough talk I might go out to visit them in the next few months it seems like a good spot to do it, I like the fact of not having to worry about accomadation and grub and there seems to be a bit of crac.

[cliste]

hey
i was at the 14.00 one aswell and didnt really no what to make of the hole thing. have huge decision to make whether to go to jerez or aeromadrid or aerfan now.

[grafity]

I was the lad asking all the questions at the end. They all say the same thing about the conections with the airlines. I like the fact that Jerez has everything up front, you don't have to worry about accomodation food or transport because its on site. And from what window seat and Touch'n'oops are saying the atmosphere is good.

I was just looking at the AeroMadrid site and the integrated course takes 20 months this seems a bit long you have to wonder if jerez is a bit more organised and efficient in general I got a better feeling about jerez. But, there's about 40 to 50,000euro in the difference although take all your living cost away for the year from those figures.

[Straightandlevel80kt]

Hi Grafity

Sorry for the delay getting back to you.

Not a mistake with the £100K, because the objective is to get a job, not just to finish the course.

A loan of £65K costs £77K if you pay it off over 10 years, and you will need a few grand for extra expenses during your 18 months on the course, so your budget is already about £80K, before allowing enough cash to stay current between graduation and getting a job and possibly pursuing a type rating (>=£20K). With interest on that further borrowing, it will not take long to reach and exceed 100K. And that's being conservative, assuming things go well. Ideally you'd want to have a contingency on top of that, so you're not flying on fumes.

Do the maths, be honest and trust yourself. It's not a holiday, it's a business decision which will have huge implications, financial and personal for the rest of your life. There's no room for sentiment or bullsh1t so you need to make the right decision for you, which you are comfortable with and which is based on a rational assessment of the facts, rather than a throw-away sales statistic.

I wish you well.

[grafity]

I see what your saying. I was looking for a price on the type-rating and having found one it was like getting the greatest kick in the.

[mad_jock]

you need to budget for £100K sterling before commencing self funded integrated training

I am not doudting your math above. BUT for f s sake.

Why on earth are you even considering paying out nearly 3 times as much as the modular route for the same license?

I was 35-38k starting in 2000 including a FI rating and cost of living etc. I can see the nice factor of sunning yourself in spain for a year, but you could buy a large part of a house with the difference. But surely the 6 weeks, PPL and hour building is enough in the sun.

The other thing is as well it takes so bloody long to jump the hoops. I managed to start in september 2000 and complete and started work as an FI by May 2002. So if you take the 5 weeks off for the FI rating its less than the intergrated and there was more than enough dead time in the middle I could have taken another 6 months off the time taken (I don't know if could have managed the work load though with out the time off).

Another thing to think of is the fact you will be paying back that money for another 10 years. With the way the industry is now your bloody lucky to get a job in the first place and even more lucky if you can stay in continuous employment for 10 years.

What are the repayments like?

Averge FI if your lucky is 10-12k a year.

FO on turbo prop 20-25k a year when you start.

How on earth can these sort of salaries allow you to repay a 70-100k loan?

To be honest I think its criminal for the banks to allow people that much unsecured credit in the first place.

MJ

[jonathang]

Hi all,

I am definitely swinging in the modular direction for reason MJ explained.

However with regards to Jerez.

I was speaking to an ex Integrated student last week who had a hard time with them.

He talked about the double standards between Sponsored students and the Self-Funded students.

And the fact they had your money and failure at early stages resulted in huge financial losses on the student’s part.

Anyone else has any negative experiences such as this?

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I doubt very much whether you get much second class citizen treatment in Jerez. But. Fact is if you HAVE to slip a course back due to a fortnight of bad weather then do you slip:

Course A: who are airline sponsored, have a fixed completion date, and an expensive type rating course booked the week after, and line training scheduled for the month after that so they can go online for the start of the summer ops season next year.

or,

Course B: who are self sponsored, have nothing lined up for when they graduate other than a lot of letter writing and CV posting, the prospect of months of interviews and selections if they are lucky and possibly no job for many many months if ever.

You slip Course B.

You minimise it, you apologise for it, you cover the extra accomodation costs of it. But thats what you do.

Cheers


WWW

[jonathang]

Thanks for the reply WWW.

I understand the thought process behind that.

I did not explain clearly.

With regards to the double standards he was talking about pass standards not being across the board.

Cut straight to the point he was talking about how the standards of pass were held higher for self funded against cadets, from his opinion on the basis they were a larger renewable contract.

He was leaked the fact they wanted him out from the start.

He did persist not through choice, because they had his money and ended up with 1st time CPL / IR passes.

Not saying everyone will have had these experiences just concerns me with regards to Integrated training there hearing this.

Thanks Jonathan

P.s. on flip side know cadets who were very impressed.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

What? Apply higher pass standards to self sponsored? Why and How? To what end? Get them to fail and then need more lessons for re-test?! Just how does that put any money in the instructors or examiners pocket?

You think the instructors and school beancounters are in cahoots? More like sworn enemies. You think instructors like putting their students up for test anticipating a beasting and a fail? No way. Wouldn't happen. Bollocks.

If anything its the silver spooned sponsored cadets that get the beasting - remember no instructor every got a cadetship.. Plus its kind of morally right that they should work harder, do better, try more - they have the RHS of a BoeingBus just waiting for their backsides in a few months time. Plus airlines want/demand more feedback on their cadets and due to their selection they expect to see Above Average stamped all the way through their files. This leads to sponsored courses being pushed harder in training and having higher standards expected of them all round.

If a sponsored cadet turns in on Monday morning looking the worse for wear after the Sunday pool party then they tended to get a military course style debreifing on how they had better well sort it out - else. Whereas what can you actually say to the self sponsored chap who is there at his own expense? Tends to be more of a 'quiet chat' about how to best achieve success.

Anyone bleating post course that they were badly treated and that others had preferential treatment was usually someone who struggled on the course and failed to be popular.

Cheers

WWW

[grafity]

This is one thing they braught up in their seminar on sunday. They were adamint that everyone was treated the same and that there was no preferential treatmeant between sponsered and sell funded students. They were saying that both types were integrated into the same class that there was no seperation in the accomodation andd so on.
What I'm getting at is, this was part of their speech no-one asked if it was going to be a problem of this sort. It had never crossed my mind anyway. Maybe it's an old problem or something. I know that FTOs tend to oversell themselves but it would seem a bit weird to highlight their downsides.

[jonathang]

WWW,

I only bring up what his experience, and your right he was not liked by a few of the ex military instructors.