UAS done.. but I wanna fly civvy? How?
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UAS done.. but I wanna fly civvy? How?
Hi Fellas,
A coupla questions for you.
I have completed EFT with the UAS on the Grob, 15 hours solo, 75 dual. That includes Instrument Flying Test, Pilot Nav Test and FHT (regrettably never bothered with landaways). I left the RAF at this stage. I have my up to date RAF Pilot's Flying Log Book signed off by the Sqn Boss.
I am starting to look into the options for going into the airlines and would like to get a rough idea about.....
a) How much cash am I looking at spending to get qualified fit to stand a chance getting hired? I have about £27k tucked under my mattress... but is this anywhere near enough?
b) How long would working through the qualifications/tests/boards take?
b) What are my first steps?
Any advice would be much appreciated
A coupla questions for you.
I have completed EFT with the UAS on the Grob, 15 hours solo, 75 dual. That includes Instrument Flying Test, Pilot Nav Test and FHT (regrettably never bothered with landaways). I left the RAF at this stage. I have my up to date RAF Pilot's Flying Log Book signed off by the Sqn Boss.
I am starting to look into the options for going into the airlines and would like to get a rough idea about.....
a) How much cash am I looking at spending to get qualified fit to stand a chance getting hired? I have about £27k tucked under my mattress... but is this anywhere near enough?
b) How long would working through the qualifications/tests/boards take?
b) What are my first steps?
Any advice would be much appreciated
If you assume that all of your hours are valid, but none of your qualifications, then that's a fair starting point.
I'd suggest that stage 1 is to pass the JAA PPL(A) exams and skills test, you'll probably need 10 hours to bed into a new type, prep for the skills test and pass it, do the dual X-country and the qualifying X-country.
After that, you'll pretty much be in the same position as anybody else, who has just passed a PPL so another 150 hours or so during which time you need to do your (14?) CPL/ATPL exams, then do the 25 hours CPL course.
G
I'd suggest that stage 1 is to pass the JAA PPL(A) exams and skills test, you'll probably need 10 hours to bed into a new type, prep for the skills test and pass it, do the dual X-country and the qualifying X-country.
After that, you'll pretty much be in the same position as anybody else, who has just passed a PPL so another 150 hours or so during which time you need to do your (14?) CPL/ATPL exams, then do the 25 hours CPL course.
G
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Cheers for that Genghis/Flypuppy
Sorry for being a bit thickaroo, but does one normally get hired after achieving a CPL (and performing the ground studies for ATPL) then complete the hours needed to put to an ATPL employed with an airline?
I've read you need 1,500 hours to get an ATPL. To get that sort of cash i'd need to reach for the ski-mask and kosh, under my mattress, and pay the local Post Office a visit.
So assuming I need to be qualified up to CPL (not CPL/IR?), how would you estimate i'm looking at dishing out for those 150 + 25 hours?
I already have 85 UAS hours (100 civilian - adding 10 min for taxy on each sortie).
Breakdown -
Total Military Hours
85
dual
75
solo
15
IR (simulated in the air owing to the Grob not being allowed to fly in cloud at the time!)
6
Landings
285
Thanks in advance.
Sorry for being a bit thickaroo, but does one normally get hired after achieving a CPL (and performing the ground studies for ATPL) then complete the hours needed to put to an ATPL employed with an airline?
I've read you need 1,500 hours to get an ATPL. To get that sort of cash i'd need to reach for the ski-mask and kosh, under my mattress, and pay the local Post Office a visit.
So assuming I need to be qualified up to CPL (not CPL/IR?), how would you estimate i'm looking at dishing out for those 150 + 25 hours?
I already have 85 UAS hours (100 civilian - adding 10 min for taxy on each sortie).
Breakdown -
Total Military Hours
85
dual
75
solo
15
IR (simulated in the air owing to the Grob not being allowed to fly in cloud at the time!)
6
Landings
285
Thanks in advance.
Your miltary SEP experience will count towards a PPL and beyond; the 'IR' won't count for anything except simulated IF time.
Have a look in LASORS for PPL military accreditation and you'll find that it is all spelt out for you.
Whether you elect to go for a modular or integrated CPl course will be decided by your personal circumstances. Some airlines allegedly express a preference for integrated course graduates, but since the airlines contribute nothing towards flight training these days they are hardly in a position to comment!
Even with a CPL/IR with ATPL knowledge credit (colloquially termed a 'frozen ATPL'), MCC etc under your belt, you will be lucky to be hired by an airline unless the demand picks up substantially. Currently it is assessed that European airlines offer excess capacity to market need, so I can't see a mass hiring rush coming along for a while.
A VFR CPL wouldn't get you an interview; the minimum has to be CPL/IR with ATPL knowledge plus MCC.
You cannot hold an ATPL until you have achieved, amongst other things, 500 hours multi-pilot time in a/c certified for operation by 2 pilots (e.g. 500 hours as a Dash 8 F/O).
Of course if you invested £27K in premium bonds, you might be lucky to win some more dosh. Alternatively, go along to your friendly bank manager (if he/she isn't on the end of a phone in a Bangalore call centre) and discuss finance options.
Have a look in LASORS for PPL military accreditation and you'll find that it is all spelt out for you.
Whether you elect to go for a modular or integrated CPl course will be decided by your personal circumstances. Some airlines allegedly express a preference for integrated course graduates, but since the airlines contribute nothing towards flight training these days they are hardly in a position to comment!
Even with a CPL/IR with ATPL knowledge credit (colloquially termed a 'frozen ATPL'), MCC etc under your belt, you will be lucky to be hired by an airline unless the demand picks up substantially. Currently it is assessed that European airlines offer excess capacity to market need, so I can't see a mass hiring rush coming along for a while.
A VFR CPL wouldn't get you an interview; the minimum has to be CPL/IR with ATPL knowledge plus MCC.
You cannot hold an ATPL until you have achieved, amongst other things, 500 hours multi-pilot time in a/c certified for operation by 2 pilots (e.g. 500 hours as a Dash 8 F/O).
Of course if you invested £27K in premium bonds, you might be lucky to win some more dosh. Alternatively, go along to your friendly bank manager (if he/she isn't on the end of a phone in a Bangalore call centre) and discuss finance options.
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The requirements for a CPL (via the modular route) include having 100 hrs P1. So that's where most of your catching up will be. The PIFG counts for nothing unless you've complete the JEFTS ground school - and then it gives you an IMC rating.... but UAS studes don't do the JEFTS groundschool until after IOT.
JAR also acknowledges that the military only log flight time, so they give you a "chock-to-chock" allowance. Unfortunately for EFT graduates with lots of 1 hour flights, the allowance is strictly 5% of your total time (great for the VC10 and tristar mates though!).
To qualify for your PPL, you will need to convert to type, complete the qualifying cross country (which you will have to do dual first too), and pass the skills test. As BEagle suggests, if you can find a G115, Firefly or Bulldog to fly, this shouldn't take long - I took 20 hours, but did a lot of "solo consolodation" whilst waiting for weather good enough for the QXC. (Damn annoying when you've got a PIFG!)
Talk to a number of schools (trying to stay local), and see if they have any ex-RAF pilots or QFIs. They'll understand what you've done far better than a civvie instructor.
After you PPL, spend some of your budget buying into a group-owned aircraft. The flying is the cheepest you'll find anywhere, and it gives you the freedom to take the aircraft away on long holidays and adventures for very little cost - unlike hiring, where you can bearly afford to go away for a day, let alone a week. Whilst many groups stipulate 100hrs P1 for insurance purposes, our insurance company waviered this when I told them that I'd done 88 hours dual with the RAF!
Also, as soon as you've got the PPL out of the way, and have found that golden aircraft share, get yourself enrolled on to a ATPL Groundschool course. The work is hard, and if you have a day job, it will take you between 6 months and 18 months to complete. By then, you'll have exceeded your CPL minimum hours requirement having taken every member of your family and village up for AEFs!
If you want to join the airlines then you will need a CPL AND IR. Budget to spend at least £20k on these alone, and you won't be too surprised when you go over hours.
Alternatively, if you'd like to hang around the light aviation scene for a bit, do the FI (flying instructor) rating and "use your head". ho-hum. The pay is ****, but you'll be able to build up your hours and learn a lot about human factors in the meantime!!!
JAR also acknowledges that the military only log flight time, so they give you a "chock-to-chock" allowance. Unfortunately for EFT graduates with lots of 1 hour flights, the allowance is strictly 5% of your total time (great for the VC10 and tristar mates though!).
To qualify for your PPL, you will need to convert to type, complete the qualifying cross country (which you will have to do dual first too), and pass the skills test. As BEagle suggests, if you can find a G115, Firefly or Bulldog to fly, this shouldn't take long - I took 20 hours, but did a lot of "solo consolodation" whilst waiting for weather good enough for the QXC. (Damn annoying when you've got a PIFG!)
Talk to a number of schools (trying to stay local), and see if they have any ex-RAF pilots or QFIs. They'll understand what you've done far better than a civvie instructor.
After you PPL, spend some of your budget buying into a group-owned aircraft. The flying is the cheepest you'll find anywhere, and it gives you the freedom to take the aircraft away on long holidays and adventures for very little cost - unlike hiring, where you can bearly afford to go away for a day, let alone a week. Whilst many groups stipulate 100hrs P1 for insurance purposes, our insurance company waviered this when I told them that I'd done 88 hours dual with the RAF!
Also, as soon as you've got the PPL out of the way, and have found that golden aircraft share, get yourself enrolled on to a ATPL Groundschool course. The work is hard, and if you have a day job, it will take you between 6 months and 18 months to complete. By then, you'll have exceeded your CPL minimum hours requirement having taken every member of your family and village up for AEFs!
If you want to join the airlines then you will need a CPL AND IR. Budget to spend at least £20k on these alone, and you won't be too surprised when you go over hours.
Alternatively, if you'd like to hang around the light aviation scene for a bit, do the FI (flying instructor) rating and "use your head". ho-hum. The pay is ****, but you'll be able to build up your hours and learn a lot about human factors in the meantime!!!
