Can anyone tell me what JAA stands for?
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Join Date: Oct 2003
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Can anyone tell me what JAA stands for?
J.A.A = Joint Aviation Authorities (correct me if I’m wrong)
Yesterday I had another discussion with a colleague about JAA licenses and especially the really wanted JAA-ATPL. Normally I don’t post anything on pprune, but this time I just want to see if other pilots share the same ideas or if there’s anyone around who can give me an answer to the following scenarios.
1. How to get a JAA-ATPL?
Since the rules have changes I’ve heard a lot of complains from people finding it hard to get an ATPL in certain countries. Some people (I’ve experienced this first hand) fill in their JAA-ATPL application form, have all the hours required, send their logbook to the authorities, even attach a proficiency check form and get the following response: We can’t conclude from your sent items that you did your profcheck as a PIC. And I just thought, that’s weird, my CPL (national at the time) clearly states PIC behind my type rating. So I decided to give the almighty authorities a call to ask them what it was that they are looking for. Response: the company has to make a statement that the check was conducted under a “commander environment”. So what do they mean with this? Does this mean you have to be in the left seat or can you do it from the right seat? This was a question the authorities couldn’t answer for me at that time. I even tried calling the authorities from another country (also a JAA member) and they told me the same thing.
With this answer I went to my companies’ chief instructor and told him I needed a PIC check. He told me this meant a captains check (read: left seat) and you would need an ATPL for that, so he couldn’t give me one. This made me afraid, very afraid, because it basically meant I could NEVER become a captain, because you need an ATPL before the company can decide to upgrade you, but you CANNOT GET an ATPL without doing a PIC check.
I’ve also noticed that in other European countries it’s a lot easier to get a JAA-ATPL, but I was really under the impression that rules, regulations and requirements were supposed to be the same.
2. Another thing that struck me as being weird (at least I don’t understand it) is that it obviously makes a difference in which country your JAA license has been issued. I was under the impression that all licenses where now equal to each other and that it would make things a lot easier. Talking about EASYer, I’ve heard that at certain companies they want you to have a JAA license, but it has to be issued in a certain country. Is it me or does this basically mean I have to pay money to get the same sort of EUROPEAN license, but just issued in another country? What kind of reasoning could be behind this?
If there’s anyone who knows the answers to these questions, please let me know so I can also tell it to some friends/colleagues of mine. If it’s total B.S. what I wrote down you can also tell me, but I do know that these are issues which give some pilots troubles and also another thing to waist money on for nothing (as if we already haven’t invested enough).
Happy Flying!
Yesterday I had another discussion with a colleague about JAA licenses and especially the really wanted JAA-ATPL. Normally I don’t post anything on pprune, but this time I just want to see if other pilots share the same ideas or if there’s anyone around who can give me an answer to the following scenarios.
1. How to get a JAA-ATPL?
Since the rules have changes I’ve heard a lot of complains from people finding it hard to get an ATPL in certain countries. Some people (I’ve experienced this first hand) fill in their JAA-ATPL application form, have all the hours required, send their logbook to the authorities, even attach a proficiency check form and get the following response: We can’t conclude from your sent items that you did your profcheck as a PIC. And I just thought, that’s weird, my CPL (national at the time) clearly states PIC behind my type rating. So I decided to give the almighty authorities a call to ask them what it was that they are looking for. Response: the company has to make a statement that the check was conducted under a “commander environment”. So what do they mean with this? Does this mean you have to be in the left seat or can you do it from the right seat? This was a question the authorities couldn’t answer for me at that time. I even tried calling the authorities from another country (also a JAA member) and they told me the same thing.
With this answer I went to my companies’ chief instructor and told him I needed a PIC check. He told me this meant a captains check (read: left seat) and you would need an ATPL for that, so he couldn’t give me one. This made me afraid, very afraid, because it basically meant I could NEVER become a captain, because you need an ATPL before the company can decide to upgrade you, but you CANNOT GET an ATPL without doing a PIC check.
I’ve also noticed that in other European countries it’s a lot easier to get a JAA-ATPL, but I was really under the impression that rules, regulations and requirements were supposed to be the same.
2. Another thing that struck me as being weird (at least I don’t understand it) is that it obviously makes a difference in which country your JAA license has been issued. I was under the impression that all licenses where now equal to each other and that it would make things a lot easier. Talking about EASYer, I’ve heard that at certain companies they want you to have a JAA license, but it has to be issued in a certain country. Is it me or does this basically mean I have to pay money to get the same sort of EUROPEAN license, but just issued in another country? What kind of reasoning could be behind this?
If there’s anyone who knows the answers to these questions, please let me know so I can also tell it to some friends/colleagues of mine. If it’s total B.S. what I wrote down you can also tell me, but I do know that these are issues which give some pilots troubles and also another thing to waist money on for nothing (as if we already haven’t invested enough).
Happy Flying!
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Hi Bop
1- When my mob lost the plot and decided to unleash me on unsuspecting humanity as PIC I was sent to the hell-box for my command/ATPL checkride, in other words you can hop into the sim for a combined captains' checkride and JAA ATPL checkride, thereafter the linechecks etcetc.
2- Have also heard that some companies advertise for ... (insert country) JAA ATPL holders. Not a problem, when I was based in Europe employed by another branch of our company I investigated this with the authorities, apparently a JAA ticket-holder can change the country who administers his/her licence when employed by a company in that country, e.g. you gets a job with a french employer, you changes your UK JAA ATPL to a French JAA ATPL, if you want to. Knowing the JAA and the EU this is probably already outdated info, was true about 2 years ago.
Hope this helps, best of luck...
Bug
1- When my mob lost the plot and decided to unleash me on unsuspecting humanity as PIC I was sent to the hell-box for my command/ATPL checkride, in other words you can hop into the sim for a combined captains' checkride and JAA ATPL checkride, thereafter the linechecks etcetc.
2- Have also heard that some companies advertise for ... (insert country) JAA ATPL holders. Not a problem, when I was based in Europe employed by another branch of our company I investigated this with the authorities, apparently a JAA ticket-holder can change the country who administers his/her licence when employed by a company in that country, e.g. you gets a job with a french employer, you changes your UK JAA ATPL to a French JAA ATPL, if you want to. Knowing the JAA and the EU this is probably already outdated info, was true about 2 years ago.
Hope this helps, best of luck...
Bug
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Hi there!
Wat you need ( I beleive) is a SKILL TEST as PIC. This is different from a prof check and done with a TRE qualified to perform skill tests for the issue of an ATPL.
Hope this helps.
Wat you need ( I beleive) is a SKILL TEST as PIC. This is different from a prof check and done with a TRE qualified to perform skill tests for the issue of an ATPL.
Hope this helps.
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You could be right Md-driver, I've heard of it. Unfortunately for some people a PIC skill test means a captains check and it's hard to convince them otherwise. But then again, why does my license say PIC if I've apparently never done a PIC skill test?
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JAA is a totall B S
a frensh friend has 6000 hours and FAA ATPL and asked his country ( the frensh) to onvert his licence. the Jaa person told him that he had to restart all the course ,meaning another year in ground shool 80 000 euro to get a Jaa cpl.
his exact words were: ( it doesn't matter if you are a 747 captain with 40 000 hours u still have to start by taking your ppl and so forth).
another friend of mine has a swiss Jaa licence and even though he was hired by an english company the Jaa didn't give him a validation and lost his job .
my advice is stay away from JAA
happy flying
a frensh friend has 6000 hours and FAA ATPL and asked his country ( the frensh) to onvert his licence. the Jaa person told him that he had to restart all the course ,meaning another year in ground shool 80 000 euro to get a Jaa cpl.
his exact words were: ( it doesn't matter if you are a 747 captain with 40 000 hours u still have to start by taking your ppl and so forth).
another friend of mine has a swiss Jaa licence and even though he was hired by an english company the Jaa didn't give him a validation and lost his job .
my advice is stay away from JAA
happy flying
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I've recently upgraded my UK CPL to a JAR ATPL and have been told, by the holy CAA, that the required 'skills test' would be covered by my latest LPC/OPC-it involved nothing more than the standard requirements for the 6 monthly check. If the applicant held a UK CPL, then the skills test could be completed before or after the ATPL requirements had been met. However, if the applicant held a JAA licence, then the test must be completed AFTER the ATPL requirements had been met. The CAA found no problems with my application and I did not send in a OPC form.
I'm sure they make up their own rules on an as and when basis.
Hope this helps.
I'm sure they make up their own rules on an as and when basis.
Hope this helps.
