Instructing before CPL??
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: UK
Instructing before CPL??
Hi,
Excuse my ignorance, but is it possible to do a FI(R) before you do your CPL. I know you cant get paid without a CPL but that's not a problem. Do you think a flying school would employ me to instruct for free at the weekends or whenever?
I am doing my ATPL's at the moment and I think it would be a great way get my hours up. I know everyone hates hour building instructors, but that is the fault of the system, not of the instructors.
What does anyone think about this?
Cheers
Foz
Excuse my ignorance, but is it possible to do a FI(R) before you do your CPL. I know you cant get paid without a CPL but that's not a problem. Do you think a flying school would employ me to instruct for free at the weekends or whenever?
I am doing my ATPL's at the moment and I think it would be a great way get my hours up. I know everyone hates hour building instructors, but that is the fault of the system, not of the instructors.
What does anyone think about this?
Cheers
Foz
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
From: BFS
An interesting question SK thinks!
I know of a chap who instructed and had no CPL - bloody decent bloke who just loves general aviation. But I'm really not sure of the technicalities - give lasors a try. If it works looks like an excellent hour building route. Remember though that the course is somewhere round £5k so would probably work out evenly with buying 100 hours to get that time P1 in your book. However after your first 100 hours you would be in 'profit'. Added to that you could then be paid for it with a CPL and its looking good.
Only possible drawback may be that you would be bound by the same minima as the guy you're teaching so on a marginal day wouldn't get flying- I think that is outweighed by the school getting you free of charge.
I suspect if you post this on private flying you will get a few people in the know - the guys who instruct for free for fun hang out there
SK
I know of a chap who instructed and had no CPL - bloody decent bloke who just loves general aviation. But I'm really not sure of the technicalities - give lasors a try. If it works looks like an excellent hour building route. Remember though that the course is somewhere round £5k so would probably work out evenly with buying 100 hours to get that time P1 in your book. However after your first 100 hours you would be in 'profit'. Added to that you could then be paid for it with a CPL and its looking good.
Only possible drawback may be that you would be bound by the same minima as the guy you're teaching so on a marginal day wouldn't get flying- I think that is outweighed by the school getting you free of charge.
I suspect if you post this on private flying you will get a few people in the know - the guys who instruct for free for fun hang out there
SK
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
From: UK
I don't know if it’s possible, however:
Issue 1:
You will not be paid and a dim view is taken of that in this industry
Issue 2:
You will have to pay for the rating, say £6kish. You can hour build for cheaper than that.
Issue 3:
How do you expect to study if you're out there doing instruction?
Doesn't really make sense, does it.
Issue 1:
You will not be paid and a dim view is taken of that in this industry
Issue 2:
You will have to pay for the rating, say £6kish. You can hour build for cheaper than that.
Issue 3:
How do you expect to study if you're out there doing instruction?
Doesn't really make sense, does it.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: UK
Hi Tom 24, SK
I think it does make sense because I will most likely have to get an FI rating after I finish all my training anyway, so I may as well do it now. Also, I am only talking about doing it part time at the weekends maybe doing the trial flights or something which leaves plenty of time for study during the week.
As I said, I was planning to do FI straight after CPL anyway, so the cost is not an issue. Why pay for Hours building and FI?
SK - I get your point about minima - good point!!
Thanks for your replies so far
Foz
I think it does make sense because I will most likely have to get an FI rating after I finish all my training anyway, so I may as well do it now. Also, I am only talking about doing it part time at the weekends maybe doing the trial flights or something which leaves plenty of time for study during the week.
As I said, I was planning to do FI straight after CPL anyway, so the cost is not an issue. Why pay for Hours building and FI?
SK - I get your point about minima - good point!!
Thanks for your replies so far
Foz
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 272
Likes: 0
From: UK
Its not possible to do it while you're studying for the exams because you have to have JAR-FCL CPL knowledge before starting the FI course (see Lasors section H page 3).
Also, you have to have 200 hours total time of which 150 hours are PIC (for PPL holders) before you can start the course, so in effect you will have to do all the hour building required for the CPL before you can start the FI course.
So its a bit of a non-starter I'm afraid.
PW
Also, you have to have 200 hours total time of which 150 hours are PIC (for PPL holders) before you can start the course, so in effect you will have to do all the hour building required for the CPL before you can start the FI course.
So its a bit of a non-starter I'm afraid.
PW
Northern Monkey
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 217
Likes: 0
From: Newcastle, England
It would be nice if you only poseted this question in one forum, rather that private flying, flying instructors and wannabees, that way all the responses would be kept together rather than scattered all over the place
NB
NB
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
From: BFS
You will not be paid and a dim view is taken of that in this industry
Too bad it can't be done though.
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 159
Likes: 0
From: UK
Ninja Bill,
Dont throw your toys out of your pram, I think its relevant to all the forums Ive posted in. Some people with knowledge of this might only visit the instructors forum or only visit Private flying etc.
SK - I agree, just out of interest what did you have to do in order to instruct in the old days ie pre JAR. BCPL etc how did all that work? From what Ive heard it seemed a better system if you wanted to instruct??
Cheers
Foz
Dont throw your toys out of your pram, I think its relevant to all the forums Ive posted in. Some people with knowledge of this might only visit the instructors forum or only visit Private flying etc.
SK - I agree, just out of interest what did you have to do in order to instruct in the old days ie pre JAR. BCPL etc how did all that work? From what Ive heard it seemed a better system if you wanted to instruct??
Cheers
Foz
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,178
Likes: 0
From: BFS
No you didn't
Where does that say it is a general view and not your opinion. And you still haven't justified what I feel is a careless remark.
Foz-I wasn't in aviation in those days ( thank goodness - negative marking!!!!). However my best mate instructed then and I think you're right, it was easier to instruct to build hours then on the BCPL - I reckon it all works out though as they had to build many more hours. Guys I know who did it the old way reckon we have it tough, personally I reckon they had it tougher. Either way its still a
!!
SK
You will not be paid and a dim view is taken of that in this industry
Where does that say it is a general view and not your opinion. And you still haven't justified what I feel is a careless remark.
Foz-I wasn't in aviation in those days ( thank goodness - negative marking!!!!). However my best mate instructed then and I think you're right, it was easier to instruct to build hours then on the BCPL - I reckon it all works out though as they had to build many more hours. Guys I know who did it the old way reckon we have it tough, personally I reckon they had it tougher. Either way its still a
!!SK
Joined: May 1999
Aviation Qualifications: ATP+Mil
Posts: 27,395
Likes: 857
From: Quite near 'An aerodrome somewhere in England'
In earlier days, FIs were valued more for their experience. Attitudes such as "I will most likely have to get an FI rating after I finish all my training anyway, so I may as well do it now. Also, I am only talking about doing it part time at the weekends maybe doing the trial flights or something....." would have rightly seen you being booted out of the CFIs office and told to $od off and not to come back until you'd grown up!
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 395
Likes: 0
From: Midlands
Foz2,
It is possible to do an FI (R) without CPL, but if you are after a CPL then I would not bother. The biggest problem is the hours requirement.
To get your FI(R) you need to have;
1) completed an FI(R) assessment (regardless of being CPL or PPL)
2) achieved the CPL level of knowledge requirements
3) have 200 hours if the holder of a CPL or 300 hours if the holder of a PPL
4) completed an approved FI(R) course
So you could in theory go PPL, CPL theory, Hours building (to 300), FI(R) assessment, FI(R) course.
However if your long term aim is to go for CPL then I would just concentrate on that because that extra 100 hours as a ppl holder would just be a waste if money which could pay for your CPL course and your distance learning and maybe even more.
just my opinion,
Obs cop
It is possible to do an FI (R) without CPL, but if you are after a CPL then I would not bother. The biggest problem is the hours requirement.
To get your FI(R) you need to have;
1) completed an FI(R) assessment (regardless of being CPL or PPL)
2) achieved the CPL level of knowledge requirements
3) have 200 hours if the holder of a CPL or 300 hours if the holder of a PPL
4) completed an approved FI(R) course
So you could in theory go PPL, CPL theory, Hours building (to 300), FI(R) assessment, FI(R) course.
However if your long term aim is to go for CPL then I would just concentrate on that because that extra 100 hours as a ppl holder would just be a waste if money which could pay for your CPL course and your distance learning and maybe even more.
just my opinion,
Obs cop
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 6
From: Suffolk UK
Foz2 you might think this is relevent to a number of forums, but we get heartily fed up with people who scatter-gun the same topic over multiple forums. So this one will be closed.
Scroggs
Scroggs
