Atpl Study Material
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: North Yorkshire
Atpl Study Material
I just wondered if anyone had any JAA ATPL notes or CD ROMs or DVDs for sale. I am doing a distance learning course and sometimes when things are expressed a different way it suddenly clicks! Cheers.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 6
From: Suffolk UK
Yes, and how do you think the schools feel about their notes being passed on in this way? Be careful you don't trangress any of the terms you signed up to when you bought them originally.... I will happily give evidence against those who indulge in illegal trading of copyright material.
Scrogs
Scrogs
Thread Starter
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From: North Yorkshire
I understand your point Scroggs. However it's not like I haven't spent an extortionate amount of money on my current course already with a reputable groundschool. I am only looking for some supporting reading material to get my head around some of the things that I am finding difficult to understand.
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 14
Likes: 0
From: ubique
"indulge in illegal trading of copyright material"
I have checked the copyright notices in all my manuals. I am not allowed to disseminate, lend, hire blah blah blah.....
Says nothing about selling. I bought one of my sets of manuals from my training provider and successfully attended their course and ensuing CAA exams. The manuals are excellent, I intend to keep them. The other set I bought from a reputable flight supplies shop, now opened its fourth outlet at Gloucester. I reserve the right to re-sell MY manuals, costing £550, for a snip in order to clear out a bookshelf and help somebody else.
Intellectual property and copyright schmopyright!!
Previous posts say it all, you can't pass the exams with second hand notes only, one MUST enrol with a recognised training provider so the only ones losing out are those that can't win prospective customers due to competition. No names mentioned, but the weather forecast says it's sunnier in Bristol than in Oxford at the moment....
Off soapbox, two, three.....dismissed!
I have checked the copyright notices in all my manuals. I am not allowed to disseminate, lend, hire blah blah blah.....
Says nothing about selling. I bought one of my sets of manuals from my training provider and successfully attended their course and ensuing CAA exams. The manuals are excellent, I intend to keep them. The other set I bought from a reputable flight supplies shop, now opened its fourth outlet at Gloucester. I reserve the right to re-sell MY manuals, costing £550, for a snip in order to clear out a bookshelf and help somebody else.
Intellectual property and copyright schmopyright!!
Previous posts say it all, you can't pass the exams with second hand notes only, one MUST enrol with a recognised training provider so the only ones losing out are those that can't win prospective customers due to competition. No names mentioned, but the weather forecast says it's sunnier in Bristol than in Oxford at the moment....
Off soapbox, two, three.....dismissed!
Jet Blast Rat
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 2,081
Likes: 0
From: Sarfend-on-Sea
Ra
You will find that most (perhaps not yours) have some wording that does prevent you selling them on legally, such as "This publication shall not ... be lent, resold, hired out ... without ... written prior consent" in our manuals. You may find that, in law, one of your "blahs" does prevent you legally selling the manuals. You may not, as the copyright may be different on notes that are produced for seperate sale.
Obviously I cannot speak for policy even on my employer's behalf, let alone our competitors, but low-level lending and reselling is seen as impossible to police and to try to do so would, I think, be damaging to a school's image. At this low level there is, I think, small harm done, and a help to some students.
That does not mean it is legal. That does not mean that organised swapping as might develop here if posts such as this go unchecked can be accepted by the copyright holders.
Most schools will sell their material if you ask, many for a very reasonable price. They sell them or give them with a course for the use of that individual, not for onward distribution. They are commercial organisations operating in a difficult market. Most are also already very fair, friendly and open without the intense commercialism of much of business, and rarely go to great lengths against the copying of material, but they do need to make money, and to protect their copyrights (or lose them, of course, to public domain). These training materials take a great effort to produce, I have written some myself. That costs a school money, that must be recuperated and protected.
You will find that most (perhaps not yours) have some wording that does prevent you selling them on legally, such as "This publication shall not ... be lent, resold, hired out ... without ... written prior consent" in our manuals. You may find that, in law, one of your "blahs" does prevent you legally selling the manuals. You may not, as the copyright may be different on notes that are produced for seperate sale.
Obviously I cannot speak for policy even on my employer's behalf, let alone our competitors, but low-level lending and reselling is seen as impossible to police and to try to do so would, I think, be damaging to a school's image. At this low level there is, I think, small harm done, and a help to some students.
That does not mean it is legal. That does not mean that organised swapping as might develop here if posts such as this go unchecked can be accepted by the copyright holders.
Most schools will sell their material if you ask, many for a very reasonable price. They sell them or give them with a course for the use of that individual, not for onward distribution. They are commercial organisations operating in a difficult market. Most are also already very fair, friendly and open without the intense commercialism of much of business, and rarely go to great lengths against the copying of material, but they do need to make money, and to protect their copyrights (or lose them, of course, to public domain). These training materials take a great effort to produce, I have written some myself. That costs a school money, that must be recuperated and protected.
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 406
Likes: 0
From: Europe
If I buy a movie on DVD, newspaper, book, notes or whatever I should be able to sell it no matter what the "fine print" says. Some western European countries even let you make copies of someone else's material for "private use". I don't say it's fair though.
However, when you go to the university you normally (?) try to buy books from old students. From a student's perspective, why should books/notes in aviation be any different? The schools are already "protected" since it's compulsary to attend an approved course. If that wasn't the case, you could just buy the books/notes second hand (as with any other course) and go to the most competetive revision course if you feel like it.
That being said, I think that generally speaking UK ground schools are by far the most competetive in Europe. They do a great job and shouldn't have to struggle with students copying material illegally. Especially since many of the organisations have employees helping students out on a forum like this for free! A much bigger issue is that most JAA member states refuse to apply JAR-FCL1/2.065 (training in more than one JAA state) in order to protect its own training organisations.
However, when you go to the university you normally (?) try to buy books from old students. From a student's perspective, why should books/notes in aviation be any different? The schools are already "protected" since it's compulsary to attend an approved course. If that wasn't the case, you could just buy the books/notes second hand (as with any other course) and go to the most competetive revision course if you feel like it.
That being said, I think that generally speaking UK ground schools are by far the most competetive in Europe. They do a great job and shouldn't have to struggle with students copying material illegally. Especially since many of the organisations have employees helping students out on a forum like this for free! A much bigger issue is that most JAA member states refuse to apply JAR-FCL1/2.065 (training in more than one JAA state) in order to protect its own training organisations.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 6
From: Suffolk UK
Guys, as Clowns has informed you, most (if not all) schools prohibit the selling on of their study materials. That is their right, whether you like it or not. I am well aware, as are the schools, that this practise goes on, but I will not be the enabler of an illegal trade.
You may not advertise to buy or sell anything on Pprune, as yet, and you will never be allowed to advertise on this website material that the copyright owners have prohibited from sale.
This is not a discussion point.
Scroggs
You may not advertise to buy or sell anything on Pprune, as yet, and you will never be allowed to advertise on this website material that the copyright owners have prohibited from sale.
This is not a discussion point.
Scroggs
