How do you get an ICAO ATPL?
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How do you get an ICAO ATPL?
Say for example i had a frozen JAR ATPL but i wanted to fly for Qatar airways who require an ICAO ATPL, then what would i have to do?
Is it a simple conversion or a whole new course altogether!!
I know of people with ICAO licenses who had to pass all 14 ATPL exams plus a flight test to get the JAR ATPL!
Is it a simple conversion or a whole new course altogether!!
I know of people with ICAO licenses who had to pass all 14 ATPL exams plus a flight test to get the JAR ATPL!
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The JAR is an ICAO licence. So if you want ATPL (unfrozen) here is what you need:
SECTION 1 JAR–FCL 1 SUBPART G – AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT LICENCE (Aeroplane) – ATPL(A) JAR–FCL 1.280(a)(2) (continued) JAR–FCL 1.265 Minimum age An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall be at least 21 years of age. JAR–FCL 1.270 Medical fitness An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall hold a valid Class 1 medical certificate. In order to exercise the privileges of the ATPL(A) a valid Class 1 medical certificate shall be held. [Amdt. 1, 01.06.00] JAR–FCL 1.275 Privileges and conditions (a) Privileges. Subject to any other conditions specified in JARs, the privileges of the holder of an ATPL(A) are to: (1) exercise all the privileges of the holder of a PPL(A), a CPL(A) and an IR(A); and (2) act as pilot-in-command or co-pilot in aeroplanes engaged in air transportation. (b) Conditions. An applicant for an ATPL(A) who has complied with the conditions specified in JAR–FCL 1.265, 1.270 and 1.280 through 1.295 shall have fulfilled the requirements for the issue of an ATPL(A) containing a type rating for the aeroplane type used on the skill test. JAR–FCL 1.280 Experience and crediting (See JAR–FCL 1.050(a)(3)) (a) An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall have completed as a pilot of aeroplanes at least 1500 hours of flight time (see also JAR-FCL 1.050(a)(3)). [Of the 1 500 hours flight time, up to 100 hours of flight time may have been completed in FS and FNPT of which a maximum of 25 hours may have benn completed in FNPT,] including at least: (1) 500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes type certificated in accordance with the JAR/FAR–25 Transport category or the JAR/FAR–23 Commuter category, or BCAR or AIR 2051; (2) 250 hours either as pilot-in-command or at least 100 hours as pilot-in-command and 150 hours as co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilot-in-command the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command provided that the method of supervision is acceptable to the Authority; (3) 200 hours of cross-country flight time of which at least 100 hours shall be as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot performing under the supervision of the pilot-in-command the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command, provided that the method of supervision is acceptable to the Authority; (4) 75 hours of instrument time of which not more than 30 hours may be instrument ground time; and (5) 100 hours of night flight as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot. (b) (1) Holders of a pilot licence or equivalent document for other categories of aircraft will be credited with flight time in such other categories of aircraft as set out in JAR–FCL 1.155 except flight time in helicopters which will be credited up to 50% of all the flight time requirements of sub-paragraph (a). (2) Holders of a flight engineer licence will be credited with 50% of the flight engineer time up to a maximum credit of 250 hours. This 250 hours may be credited against the 1 500 hours requirement of sub-paragraph (a), and the 500 hours requirement of sub-paragraph (a)(1), provided that the total credit given against any of these sub-paragraphs does not exceed 250 hours. (c) The experience required shall be completed before the skill test given in JAR–FCL 1.295 is taken. [Amdt. 1, 01.06.00; Amdt. 3, 01.07.03] JAR–FCL 1.285 Theoretical knowledge (See AMC FCL 1.285) (a) Course. An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall have received theoretical knowledge instruction on an approved course at an approved flying training organisation (FTO) [ ]. An applicant who has not received the theoretical knowledge instruction during an integrated course of training shall take the course set out in Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.285. (b) Examination. An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall have demonstrated a level of Amendment 3 1–G–1 01.07.03
SECTION 1 JAR–FCL 1 SUBPART G – AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT LICENCE (Aeroplane) – ATPL(A) JAR–FCL 1.280(a)(2) (continued) JAR–FCL 1.265 Minimum age An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall be at least 21 years of age. JAR–FCL 1.270 Medical fitness An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall hold a valid Class 1 medical certificate. In order to exercise the privileges of the ATPL(A) a valid Class 1 medical certificate shall be held. [Amdt. 1, 01.06.00] JAR–FCL 1.275 Privileges and conditions (a) Privileges. Subject to any other conditions specified in JARs, the privileges of the holder of an ATPL(A) are to: (1) exercise all the privileges of the holder of a PPL(A), a CPL(A) and an IR(A); and (2) act as pilot-in-command or co-pilot in aeroplanes engaged in air transportation. (b) Conditions. An applicant for an ATPL(A) who has complied with the conditions specified in JAR–FCL 1.265, 1.270 and 1.280 through 1.295 shall have fulfilled the requirements for the issue of an ATPL(A) containing a type rating for the aeroplane type used on the skill test. JAR–FCL 1.280 Experience and crediting (See JAR–FCL 1.050(a)(3)) (a) An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall have completed as a pilot of aeroplanes at least 1500 hours of flight time (see also JAR-FCL 1.050(a)(3)). [Of the 1 500 hours flight time, up to 100 hours of flight time may have been completed in FS and FNPT of which a maximum of 25 hours may have benn completed in FNPT,] including at least: (1) 500 hours in multi-pilot operations on aeroplanes type certificated in accordance with the JAR/FAR–25 Transport category or the JAR/FAR–23 Commuter category, or BCAR or AIR 2051; (2) 250 hours either as pilot-in-command or at least 100 hours as pilot-in-command and 150 hours as co-pilot performing, under the supervision of the pilot-in-command the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command provided that the method of supervision is acceptable to the Authority; (3) 200 hours of cross-country flight time of which at least 100 hours shall be as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot performing under the supervision of the pilot-in-command the duties and functions of a pilot-in-command, provided that the method of supervision is acceptable to the Authority; (4) 75 hours of instrument time of which not more than 30 hours may be instrument ground time; and (5) 100 hours of night flight as pilot-in-command or as co-pilot. (b) (1) Holders of a pilot licence or equivalent document for other categories of aircraft will be credited with flight time in such other categories of aircraft as set out in JAR–FCL 1.155 except flight time in helicopters which will be credited up to 50% of all the flight time requirements of sub-paragraph (a). (2) Holders of a flight engineer licence will be credited with 50% of the flight engineer time up to a maximum credit of 250 hours. This 250 hours may be credited against the 1 500 hours requirement of sub-paragraph (a), and the 500 hours requirement of sub-paragraph (a)(1), provided that the total credit given against any of these sub-paragraphs does not exceed 250 hours. (c) The experience required shall be completed before the skill test given in JAR–FCL 1.295 is taken. [Amdt. 1, 01.06.00; Amdt. 3, 01.07.03] JAR–FCL 1.285 Theoretical knowledge (See AMC FCL 1.285) (a) Course. An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall have received theoretical knowledge instruction on an approved course at an approved flying training organisation (FTO) [ ]. An applicant who has not received the theoretical knowledge instruction during an integrated course of training shall take the course set out in Appendix 1 to JAR–FCL 1.285. (b) Examination. An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall have demonstrated a level of Amendment 3 1–G–1 01.07.03
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Hi RowleyUK,
I'll expand on the above a little.
Firstly ICAO stands for International Civil Aviation Organization which sets International Standards for Licencing requirements.
Each country has its own aviation authority. The UK CAA use the Joint Aviation Authority licencing system but before the JAA came along they had their own, broadly similar, licencing requirements.
These aviation authorities set their own licencing standards and requirements but base them on the ICAO standard. They are allowed to file differences to the ICAO.
Most, if not all, of the worlds licencing authorities are ICAO compliant so if you have an FAA ATPL or a JAA ATPL it doesn't matter as they are recognised as an ICAO ATPL.
One thing to note is that in your example you said:
"Say for example i had a frozen JAR ATPL but i wanted to fly for Qatar airways who require an ICAO ATPL, then what would i have to do?
Is it a simple conversion or a whole new course altogether!!"
You don't actually have a frozen ATPL as there isn't such a licence. What you have is a JAR CPL/IR with ATPL level knowledge.
In this case you won't have an ICAO ATPL. You would have to wait until you have the 1500 hours with the 500 multi crew and others plus have the CAA issue you with the full JAA ATPL. Once this had been done you'll have a JAA ATPL which by definition is also a ICAO ATPL.
You also noted:
"I know of people with ICAO licenses who had to pass all 14 ATPL exams plus a flight test to get the JAR ATPL!"
Say, for example, an FAA ATPL (or rather ATP) which is an ICAO ATPL came over UK then to obtain a JAA ATPL they would have to go through the JAA licencing requirements for conversion which in this case would be:
1) Ground School and Pass all 14 ATPL Subjects
2) CPL Training and Skills Test
3) 15 Hour JAA IR Course and Skills Test
Qatar Airways are, in your example, asking for an ICAO ATPL. An FAA ATP, a JAA ATPL will be as equally accepted. If using your JAA licence then just make sure you have the full JAA ATPL not the so-called Frozen ATPL before you apply otherwise you're application will be straight in the bin.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
I'll expand on the above a little.
Firstly ICAO stands for International Civil Aviation Organization which sets International Standards for Licencing requirements.
Each country has its own aviation authority. The UK CAA use the Joint Aviation Authority licencing system but before the JAA came along they had their own, broadly similar, licencing requirements.
These aviation authorities set their own licencing standards and requirements but base them on the ICAO standard. They are allowed to file differences to the ICAO.
Most, if not all, of the worlds licencing authorities are ICAO compliant so if you have an FAA ATPL or a JAA ATPL it doesn't matter as they are recognised as an ICAO ATPL.
One thing to note is that in your example you said:
"Say for example i had a frozen JAR ATPL but i wanted to fly for Qatar airways who require an ICAO ATPL, then what would i have to do?
Is it a simple conversion or a whole new course altogether!!"
You don't actually have a frozen ATPL as there isn't such a licence. What you have is a JAR CPL/IR with ATPL level knowledge.
In this case you won't have an ICAO ATPL. You would have to wait until you have the 1500 hours with the 500 multi crew and others plus have the CAA issue you with the full JAA ATPL. Once this had been done you'll have a JAA ATPL which by definition is also a ICAO ATPL.
You also noted:
"I know of people with ICAO licenses who had to pass all 14 ATPL exams plus a flight test to get the JAR ATPL!"
Say, for example, an FAA ATPL (or rather ATP) which is an ICAO ATPL came over UK then to obtain a JAA ATPL they would have to go through the JAA licencing requirements for conversion which in this case would be:
1) Ground School and Pass all 14 ATPL Subjects
2) CPL Training and Skills Test
3) 15 Hour JAA IR Course and Skills Test
Qatar Airways are, in your example, asking for an ICAO ATPL. An FAA ATP, a JAA ATPL will be as equally accepted. If using your JAA licence then just make sure you have the full JAA ATPL not the so-called Frozen ATPL before you apply otherwise you're application will be straight in the bin.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Why do it if it's not fun?
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(a) An applicant for an ATPL(A) shall have completed as a pilot of aeroplanes at least 1500 hours of flight time
I'm not a big fan of the use of the "frozen ATPL" terminology. I think it's much less confusing to call it a CPL/IR (which is exactly what it is, really) as just about every other country does, to avoid any possible confusion with the full ATPL. But I guess there's no way of changing that, so we'll just have to live with the possible confusion.
FFF
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skill test
hey Rowley UK,
those friends of yours that passed the 14 theor. exams and the skilltest,
I am realy interested to find out more about it, because I'm trying to convert my FAA ATP into JAA and seem to have same requirements. Mainly, can I do the skill test in a simulator in the US in the type I hold a type rating for as long as there is a JAA approved examiner there?
helihaund
those friends of yours that passed the 14 theor. exams and the skilltest,
I am realy interested to find out more about it, because I'm trying to convert my FAA ATP into JAA and seem to have same requirements. Mainly, can I do the skill test in a simulator in the US in the type I hold a type rating for as long as there is a JAA approved examiner there?
helihaund
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The two people concerned had Aussie ATPL's.....both were type rated on passenger A/C....
After they passed their exams they went onto hire the respective sims with an examiner and sat a skills test in that.....
As far as i know they both did their tests in England so i cant help on that bit but i do know you can do it in a sim as opposed to the real A/C!
Hope that helps!
After they passed their exams they went onto hire the respective sims with an examiner and sat a skills test in that.....
As far as i know they both did their tests in England so i cant help on that bit but i do know you can do it in a sim as opposed to the real A/C!
Hope that helps!
PPRuNe Handmaiden
G'day Rowley,
Yes, you can convert the ICAO (eg Aus ATPL) in the sim with a CAA examiner observing if you 1. already have a full ICAO ATPL with +500 hours already on the type you are doing the sim check with.
2. Or, you have +500 hours in multi crew operations and you do a full TRTO with an approved JAR operator with the LST observed by the CAA.
To do this, you must hold a full ATPL issued by an ICAO state and you must be able to fulfill the hours for a JAR ATPL already.
Note, sim means a type sim, eg 737, Dash 8, A319 etc. Not a procedural trainer.
Yes, you can convert the ICAO (eg Aus ATPL) in the sim with a CAA examiner observing if you 1. already have a full ICAO ATPL with +500 hours already on the type you are doing the sim check with.
2. Or, you have +500 hours in multi crew operations and you do a full TRTO with an approved JAR operator with the LST observed by the CAA.
To do this, you must hold a full ATPL issued by an ICAO state and you must be able to fulfill the hours for a JAR ATPL already.
Note, sim means a type sim, eg 737, Dash 8, A319 etc. Not a procedural trainer.
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SKILL TEST
Hi there Redsnail,
I have a US ATPL and 500+hrs in multi crew ops in a CJ2 in which I'm fully type rated and like to get the skilltest done in a CJ2 sim as soon as I'm ready with the writtens. Problem is, not FSI nor Simuflite know how to do it? Where can one go?
I have a US ATPL and 500+hrs in multi crew ops in a CJ2 in which I'm fully type rated and like to get the skilltest done in a CJ2 sim as soon as I'm ready with the writtens. Problem is, not FSI nor Simuflite know how to do it? Where can one go?
PPRuNe Handmaiden
helihaund,
You'll have to do the sim check in a JAA state or persuade a CAA (or whover from a JAA authority) to fly over and observe the test. You must have also fulfilled every thing else, ie the medical, the exams etc.
This is the way of JAA I am afraid. They are a picky bunch. (and expensive)
You'll have to do the sim check in a JAA state or persuade a CAA (or whover from a JAA authority) to fly over and observe the test. You must have also fulfilled every thing else, ie the medical, the exams etc.
This is the way of JAA I am afraid. They are a picky bunch. (and expensive)
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thanks,
at least I know where I stand. Kind of dissapointed, was hoping that a school of the caliber like Flight Safety or Simuflite would have it figured out. Or somebody in the United States!!
I mean, one can get a JAA type rating here! So why not be able to provide the whole thing? It would be flexible and beneficial to all. My opinion.
at least I know where I stand. Kind of dissapointed, was hoping that a school of the caliber like Flight Safety or Simuflite would have it figured out. Or somebody in the United States!!
I mean, one can get a JAA type rating here! So why not be able to provide the whole thing? It would be flexible and beneficial to all. My opinion.
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helihaund
You might run into problems with the CAA on the CJ2. Is the type rating you have Single Pilot? The CJ2 is certified as a Single Pilot aircraft, as such the CAA might not recognise the multi-crew time. I ran into a similar problem with the KingAir 350. Single pilot certified but flown as two crew. The CAA would not allow my time to count towards the 500 hours req'd.. So I am a few hundred short of the 500. Yes I am typed in the 350.
Moku.
oopps! edited for spelling.
You might run into problems with the CAA on the CJ2. Is the type rating you have Single Pilot? The CJ2 is certified as a Single Pilot aircraft, as such the CAA might not recognise the multi-crew time. I ran into a similar problem with the KingAir 350. Single pilot certified but flown as two crew. The CAA would not allow my time to count towards the 500 hours req'd.. So I am a few hundred short of the 500. Yes I am typed in the 350.
Moku.
oopps! edited for spelling.
Last edited by moku; 15th Mar 2004 at 15:51.
