Flyer Professional Flight Training Show 2004
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Master Yoda
I heard a rumour the program at WMU has already closed down and they are just finishing up the 2 students they currently have on the course.
I hope someone else will verify this for us.
TTF
I heard a rumour the program at WMU has already closed down and they are just finishing up the 2 students they currently have on the course.
I hope someone else will verify this for us.
TTF
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I’m sure that Malcolm is very knowledgeable and has a lot of experience of the flight training industry. But I’m not too sure about him being all that independent.
In fact a lot of his knowledge and experience was no doubt gained during his time as the Head of Training at… Multiflight. In fact he is still listed as the head of training on some Multiflight web pages:Multiflight
So I’m just a tad sceptical when he goes to a flight training show offers his services as an "independent" advisor and spends the time plugging his (former?) employer.
Lets look at what he said:
While this may be true, it’s just ever so coincidentally what Multiflight happen to offer on their Ab-initio course, FAA PPL and all.
I can’t say exactly what was meant by this without a bit more info but I assume it was along the line of the first point. Do the initial training and hour building in Florida and do the advanced stuff here. Which is exactly the system used by… Multiflight.
Mmm… Self explanatory really.
Now I’m not saying that there is anything wrong with Multiflight or their training. I’m just saying that your evaluation of any information given on flight training should include an evaluation of the source of that information.
Cheers,
--
HaM
In fact a lot of his knowledge and experience was no doubt gained during his time as the Head of Training at… Multiflight. In fact he is still listed as the head of training on some Multiflight web pages:Multiflight
So I’m just a tad sceptical when he goes to a flight training show offers his services as an "independent" advisor and spends the time plugging his (former?) employer.
Lets look at what he said:
He also said to me that doing the basic ppl and 150 hours over here is a waste of time and money as it's cheaper and quicker and more reliable weather wise to so it in the states. Although he said to do the FAA PPL which I found strange.
Malcolm Dean pi$$ed of a lot of the FTOs when he said he didn't see the point of training in the UK.
I was recommended to speak to him by Alex at Bristol GroundSchool and it was worthwhile, although he did just tell me to do what I'd already planned myself. (Multiflight Ab-initio).
Mmm… Self explanatory really.
Now I’m not saying that there is anything wrong with Multiflight or their training. I’m just saying that your evaluation of any information given on flight training should include an evaluation of the source of that information.
Cheers,
--
HaM
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Capt. Manuver
If you are self-sponsored with the primary aim of getting straight into BA then you're in the wrong business. It is a very unlikely prospect. It is also, according to a colleague of mine and part-time BA captain, a rather dull career with little if any real flying (he has flown for real, now likes the money from BA, works for us because he enjoys it). If you just want to sit in an office there are cheaper ways of going about it, even if the office is not at 30,000 feet. If you like flying, go fly something smaller, at least for the first part of the career. Go for the money when you have to, as responsibilities develop though life!
Leezy/half mexican
That does sound suspisciously pro-Multiflight. I will admit to being pro-UK training working for an FTO. However I also know about flying in the US, having only ever had an FAA PPL (for 12 years now) and done about 120 hours flying over there. I also have military training in light aircraft (hence I coped with having learnt in the US). I have now been taught to instruct PPL to UK standards, and was astounded. The course I was taught to deliver had far more in common with the thorough, careful, well-standardised and high-quality training given to the British military pilots than to the US PPL. I was never properly briefed in the US, the course was unstructured, the flying environment was too relaxed and informal.
If you want to pass your CPL first time in minimum hours, don't fly all your previous hours in a completely different environment with a much more relaxed approach to flying and especially to flying training and RT procedures that are illegal in the rest of the world. Ask most of the UK CPL schools and it is much more difficult to train students who have done all their time in the US.
If you do learn to fly in the States, make sure you go to one of the more reputable places, there is some very poor, overly-hurried instruction out there both on the FAA and the JAA side. The club I fly for will not let people who trained at certain US schools that shall remain nameless hire unless they have had a minimum of about 10 hours extra training (so around £1300 on the course cost - takes away most of the saving). If they went to the best US schools we can get a good student to hiring standard in about 5 hours or so, but even then some take 10 hours.
That is after only a PPL. How about if they had carried on for another 100 hours of bad habits and lax monitoring? You get what you pay for.
If you are self-sponsored with the primary aim of getting straight into BA then you're in the wrong business. It is a very unlikely prospect. It is also, according to a colleague of mine and part-time BA captain, a rather dull career with little if any real flying (he has flown for real, now likes the money from BA, works for us because he enjoys it). If you just want to sit in an office there are cheaper ways of going about it, even if the office is not at 30,000 feet. If you like flying, go fly something smaller, at least for the first part of the career. Go for the money when you have to, as responsibilities develop though life!
Leezy/half mexican
That does sound suspisciously pro-Multiflight. I will admit to being pro-UK training working for an FTO. However I also know about flying in the US, having only ever had an FAA PPL (for 12 years now) and done about 120 hours flying over there. I also have military training in light aircraft (hence I coped with having learnt in the US). I have now been taught to instruct PPL to UK standards, and was astounded. The course I was taught to deliver had far more in common with the thorough, careful, well-standardised and high-quality training given to the British military pilots than to the US PPL. I was never properly briefed in the US, the course was unstructured, the flying environment was too relaxed and informal.
If you want to pass your CPL first time in minimum hours, don't fly all your previous hours in a completely different environment with a much more relaxed approach to flying and especially to flying training and RT procedures that are illegal in the rest of the world. Ask most of the UK CPL schools and it is much more difficult to train students who have done all their time in the US.
If you do learn to fly in the States, make sure you go to one of the more reputable places, there is some very poor, overly-hurried instruction out there both on the FAA and the JAA side. The club I fly for will not let people who trained at certain US schools that shall remain nameless hire unless they have had a minimum of about 10 hours extra training (so around £1300 on the course cost - takes away most of the saving). If they went to the best US schools we can get a good student to hiring standard in about 5 hours or so, but even then some take 10 hours.
That is after only a PPL. How about if they had carried on for another 100 hours of bad habits and lax monitoring? You get what you pay for.
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If you didn't know the man I could see how you could come to the conclusion that Malcolm Dean was plugging his former employer. Its actually probably closer to the truth to say that he is continuing to recommend the type of course that he designed.
What won't be generally known is that Malcolm came down to the conference on his day off, unpaid, at the request of the organisers and that he has no connection to any FTO whatsoever, least of all Multiflight. I didn't see his presentation but he did tell me beforehand that the main thrust of his advice would be to take advantage of the cheap dollar, train in the states AND ask for a discount on sterling prices that would have been calculated at a different exchange rate. I think that's bound to p*ss off more than a few FTOs.
The question of training in the US has always been a thorny one. For what its worth my opinion is that US training is fine, provided its done properly, and therein lies the rub. Much of the training is done to a price with crappy aircraft and inadequate or non-existent pre-flight briefs. The idea of 'sructured modular' courses like Multiflight's and the one Stapleford runs is that the UK FTO supervise the stateside training so that this doesn't happen. In this I'm not entirely convinced that they are as successful as they would wish.
What won't be generally known is that Malcolm came down to the conference on his day off, unpaid, at the request of the organisers and that he has no connection to any FTO whatsoever, least of all Multiflight. I didn't see his presentation but he did tell me beforehand that the main thrust of his advice would be to take advantage of the cheap dollar, train in the states AND ask for a discount on sterling prices that would have been calculated at a different exchange rate. I think that's bound to p*ss off more than a few FTOs.
The question of training in the US has always been a thorny one. For what its worth my opinion is that US training is fine, provided its done properly, and therein lies the rub. Much of the training is done to a price with crappy aircraft and inadequate or non-existent pre-flight briefs. The idea of 'sructured modular' courses like Multiflight's and the one Stapleford runs is that the UK FTO supervise the stateside training so that this doesn't happen. In this I'm not entirely convinced that they are as successful as they would wish.
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“Its actually probably closer to the truth to say that he is continuing to recommend the type of course that he designed.”
This is quite possible.
I may have been a bit quick to jump to conclusions then. But then again it’s only natural to be suspicious in situations like this.
And for a wannabe, a bit of healthy scepticism is by no means a bad thing!
--
HaM
This is quite possible.
I may have been a bit quick to jump to conclusions then. But then again it’s only natural to be suspicious in situations like this.
And for a wannabe, a bit of healthy scepticism is by no means a bad thing!
--
HaM
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He seemed fairly straight to me when he spoke to the open forum, where we both answered questions. It does also make sense that he would set up a course on a structure he recommends. However from my experience I would still be far more wary than he is of US training, and not assume to pass easily from there to the UK.
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The idea of 'sructured modular' courses like Multiflight's and the one Stapleford runs is that the UK FTO supervise the stateside training so that this doesn't happen
Riverside training
used to be in connection a couple of years ago ... but i think they saw that no benefit was gained ?All training is UK based ... and the £49,995 includes Ab:initio to F.ATPL with type rating and 100 hrs line training.
ALL in the UK
not sure about Multiflight ?
EB !
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I have to join with M4v3r1ck in thanking everyone who made the show possible - a very enjoyable and informative day! Now, i should know the answer to this, but who was the "main guy"? Seemed like a very nice person ...
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Not the only one, Alex. Ours doesn't either.
I was one of them, Maverick, FFD (the only groundschool representative, so relieved there were no groundschol questions!), and it was a pleasure (perhaps a dubious pleasure, being asked to answer unscripted questions with an hour's notice) although not sure how much help I was, not having had decades in the business like the rest. There were some answers I found very useful and enlightening, so very useful overall.
I was one of them, Maverick, FFD (the only groundschool representative, so relieved there were no groundschol questions!), and it was a pleasure (perhaps a dubious pleasure, being asked to answer unscripted questions with an hour's notice) although not sure how much help I was, not having had decades in the business like the rest. There were some answers I found very useful and enlightening, so very useful overall.
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Ah Send Clowns - would i be right in saying that you feature in your FTO's brochure? 
And were you sitting beside someone who looked like an older version of you? (I evidently didnt get enough sleep over the weekend...)...
Peter Moxham, eh? Thats a very interesting and well written column he has! I think you get the feeling you have seen him before because he looks very much like a presenter on UK TV who presents a show with clips and outtakes ...
And were you sitting beside someone who looked like an older version of you? (I evidently didnt get enough sleep over the weekend...)...Peter Moxham, eh? Thats a very interesting and well written column he has! I think you get the feeling you have seen him before because he looks very much like a presenter on UK TV who presents a show with clips and outtakes ...
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Send Clowns,
I figured that out a long time ago. My plan/hope is to get the TT into the four digits and get some line experience b4 touching the likes of BA. There just seem to be a lot of wannabes out there who dont seem to know the reality. I was trying to explain the reality to them but maybe i ended up sounding like one of them
.
BTW i think i met you.
Capt. Manuvar
I figured that out a long time ago. My plan/hope is to get the TT into the four digits and get some line experience b4 touching the likes of BA. There just seem to be a lot of wannabes out there who dont seem to know the reality. I was trying to explain the reality to them but maybe i ended up sounding like one of them
.BTW i think i met you.
Capt. Manuvar
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Hahaha, thinking about it Steve (from a friendly rival here at Bournemouth, Profesional Air Training) is not unlike an older version of me, and yes, I think I am in the brochure pretending to give a briefing.
Were you one of those I met, Manuver? Well very pleased to do so, had fun talking to those I cornered. Some very fine chaps/girls at this show, was one of the best I've been to, very promising. Good luck on the path to BA/Virgin/the big boys. The path is not easy, but you seem to have the right idea for it and the job is good when you get there.I'll leave that to you, though, I want to settle down somewhere they'll let me be a training captain (bit old for a high chance of that in the majors), or else in a nice, friendly FTO as an IRI / Aeros instructor, maybe with a little ground instruction thrown in. I love teaching
Were you one of those I met, Manuver? Well very pleased to do so, had fun talking to those I cornered. Some very fine chaps/girls at this show, was one of the best I've been to, very promising. Good luck on the path to BA/Virgin/the big boys. The path is not easy, but you seem to have the right idea for it and the job is good when you get there.I'll leave that to you, though, I want to settle down somewhere they'll let me be a training captain (bit old for a high chance of that in the majors), or else in a nice, friendly FTO as an IRI / Aeros instructor, maybe with a little ground instruction thrown in. I love teaching
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any notes?
Would anyone be so kind as to let me know if they've taken any notes from the seminars?
If so, I would be very happy to have a copy (.pdf/html/dvi/tex whathaveyou), please PM me.
Thanks all in advance,
C
If so, I would be very happy to have a copy (.pdf/html/dvi/tex whathaveyou), please PM me.
Thanks all in advance,
C
