London Metropolitan University
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
From: London
Not sure what Leeds Uni has to do with London Met Uni but anyway, if anyone wishes to compare like-with-like exam results between schools for first-attempts, only 2 LMU students passed all 3 'phase A' exams in the Nov 2003 sitting - PoF, Perf, and AGK - everyone else all failed AGK, funny old thing.
There is some discussion above about instructors - LMU staff includes ex-CAA, ex-Oxford, ex-Cabair, ex-WMU, and others. Probably a similar mix at other schools - and I am sure they all know each other. They're more similiar and interlinked than most people realise. It's a vast conspiracy!!!
There is some discussion above about instructors - LMU staff includes ex-CAA, ex-Oxford, ex-Cabair, ex-WMU, and others. Probably a similar mix at other schools - and I am sure they all know each other. They're more similiar and interlinked than most people realise. It's a vast conspiracy!!!
Moderator
Joined: Dec 1997
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 4,929
Likes: 6
From: Suffolk UK
I'm very happy to see comment, both good and bad, about schools you have experienced. It might help if you could state roughly when you attended the school you are talking about - we've had a few cases of people roundly trashing a school only to find that their attendance was 5 or 6 years ago, and so not very useful to those who are looking at going now!
Things change rapidly in this business. As IT says, there is a lot of cross-fertilisation between schools. You could well find that the instructor at LMU, say, who is in the habit of using OAT's notes helped write them in the first place! All of the major schools are developing their product daily, and I'm sure each nicks ideas off the others from time to time. The flight training business is actually very small; everyone knows everyone else and no-one can hang on to an advantage for long.
Another thing I would ask is that, if you have criticisms to make of a school, please state them from your own experience only - I don't want any posts of the 'my mate went to XYZ school and he says it was crap' kind. They don't help anyone, and have no credibility.
Scroggs
Things change rapidly in this business. As IT says, there is a lot of cross-fertilisation between schools. You could well find that the instructor at LMU, say, who is in the habit of using OAT's notes helped write them in the first place! All of the major schools are developing their product daily, and I'm sure each nicks ideas off the others from time to time. The flight training business is actually very small; everyone knows everyone else and no-one can hang on to an advantage for long.
Another thing I would ask is that, if you have criticisms to make of a school, please state them from your own experience only - I don't want any posts of the 'my mate went to XYZ school and he says it was crap' kind. They don't help anyone, and have no credibility.
Scroggs
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Germany
London Metropolitan Ground School
Hi,
I´m thinking about doing my ATPL theory in London..but I´m living in Germany and I don´t have time to go there to check it out.
Could you write me your experiences and tips about the course?
Thanks
I´m thinking about doing my ATPL theory in London..but I´m living in Germany and I don´t have time to go there to check it out.
Could you write me your experiences and tips about the course?
Thanks
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 978
Likes: 1
From: In the SIM
Ren,
Might be worth doing a search on this one, it has been discussed on numerous occasions.
I attended LMU last year, and enjoyed my time there. It will do the job as long as you put the work in.
Good luck.
Might be worth doing a search on this one, it has been discussed on numerous occasions.
I attended LMU last year, and enjoyed my time there. It will do the job as long as you put the work in.
Good luck.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: London uk
London Metropolitan ( ground school)
I am there at the moment....the amount of info, incomming is large,
but if you do the 2-3 hours anight homework INCLUDING week ends, you should be able to cope...( I have been told)
Personally I am doing 3hours just to keep up !!!
Mark XX
but if you do the 2-3 hours anight homework INCLUDING week ends, you should be able to cope...( I have been told)
Personally I am doing 3hours just to keep up !!!
Mark XX
Joined: Mar 2003
Aviation Qualifications: PPL
Posts: 225
Likes: 21
From: London, England
As the others have said, the most important thing is to put a great deal of work into the course. I was doing around 3 to 4 hours a night....plus about the same 'on and off' study at the weekends.
A major point to ask about and to consider is the number of students per class. It's my understanding that LMU classes are bigger than most other FTO's.
Unfortunately, if the group is quite large, it's possible to get a few people that ask far too many questions. Understandable to a degree because they are, of course, interested in the subjects. If you're unlucky enough to get a few of these students in your group (Because of the volume of work to get through) it can slow the process down and get very annoying.
On the other hand, if you're lucky enough to be grouped with people that ask intelligent and constructive questions...it's a great bonus.
Just so you're aware...Good luck!
A major point to ask about and to consider is the number of students per class. It's my understanding that LMU classes are bigger than most other FTO's.
Unfortunately, if the group is quite large, it's possible to get a few people that ask far too many questions. Understandable to a degree because they are, of course, interested in the subjects. If you're unlucky enough to get a few of these students in your group (Because of the volume of work to get through) it can slow the process down and get very annoying.
On the other hand, if you're lucky enough to be grouped with people that ask intelligent and constructive questions...it's a great bonus.
Just so you're aware...Good luck!
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 200
Likes: 0
From: England
I finished my groundschool at London early this year. The truth is, im not totally convinced that where you go is too important. What is more important is that you are totally comitted and willing to put in serious hard work. Nothing throughout the course is terribly difficult to understand, but there is simply a hell of a lot of it!
I was doing between 2-3 hours per night and spending virtually all day saturday and sunday working too. My hard work paid off though, passing all but one first time with good solid grades. This was the case for the whole of my group, which incidentally had about 11 of us. There was one group though that was starting when I left that had about 25, but from what I saw that was rare.
As regards the lecturers, they are ALL excellent and its never a problem asking for extra help. They come from a variety of backgrounds and bring a host of experience to help you.
I was doing between 2-3 hours per night and spending virtually all day saturday and sunday working too. My hard work paid off though, passing all but one first time with good solid grades. This was the case for the whole of my group, which incidentally had about 11 of us. There was one group though that was starting when I left that had about 25, but from what I saw that was rare.
As regards the lecturers, they are ALL excellent and its never a problem asking for extra help. They come from a variety of backgrounds and bring a host of experience to help you.
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
From: Germany
Thanks for all your replies,
so I hope theres no major problem with that course.Except for having to learn all day. But I like learning all day
.
NO ,I like to learn DAY and NIGHT
Do think you have to learn more at lmu than in the other FTOs?
so I hope theres no major problem with that course.Except for having to learn all day. But I like learning all day
.NO ,I like to learn DAY and NIGHT
Do think you have to learn more at lmu than in the other FTOs?
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 419
Likes: 4
From: Westward TV
Do think you have to learn more at lmu than in the other FTOs?
Comparing LGU and another school like say Oxford, you do find there is a difference in approach and more to the point content. Oxford or Bristol's notes are clear, precise with a diagram or two to aid understanding. A bit Janet and John if you please.
LGU are wordy. Tombs of knowledge. All the information required is contained but also the background and derivation aswell. The trick is to distill the required reading from the superflueous. As a result, your actual understanding of the subject matter has to be broader and more complete. This is solely due to the fact that you must read and understand everything contained in the reading material to have an idea what is pertinent and what is chaff.
So, to answer you question, I believe you do need to learn more at LGU. Not for sitting the exams, but to be able to decipher the notes.
No prizes for guessing where I did my groundschool.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Southampton, UK
Sorry to hijack your thread, Ren:
May seem a pointless question (given that if you really want it you'll put the work in ragardless), but i'm at a good uni at the mo studying aero engineering which is, um, hard enough.
Can anyone give me an idea of how intense a course the atpl is in relation to such a subject? Maybe from personal experience. And also, at LMU are you thrown in with 1st degree students at the uni (in terms of accommodation if you need it) that may be keen to p*ss their 1st year's up the wall? Not good to be distracted when it's your money and not the tax paying public's that's moistening the bricks and mortar...
May seem a pointless question (given that if you really want it you'll put the work in ragardless), but i'm at a good uni at the mo studying aero engineering which is, um, hard enough.
Can anyone give me an idea of how intense a course the atpl is in relation to such a subject? Maybe from personal experience. And also, at LMU are you thrown in with 1st degree students at the uni (in terms of accommodation if you need it) that may be keen to p*ss their 1st year's up the wall? Not good to be distracted when it's your money and not the tax paying public's that's moistening the bricks and mortar...
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 978
Likes: 1
From: In the SIM
Fanois,
This question has been asked a few times here before, and attracts various different arguments, however I can give you my opinion for what its worth
.
Like yourself I studied Aero Eng, and finished back in 1997. The bottom line for me in making the comparison, is, it is simply different.
I too found the Beng Aero course hard and demanding. However, even though there were approximately 10 exams a year to pass, you also had the pressure of an excessive amount of course work to complete each term. I found this particularly hard to manage and found the whole process quite stressful.
With respect to the ATPL course, again it is demanding in the respect of the volume of information you are required to digest, however for me, it was a question of being able to manage your time constructively. Like most people here that give an estimation of the required amount of wotk you need to do for the ATPL's, it will take over you life for a good 6 months if you choose to do it full time. But that 6 months will fly by believe me.
On starting the ATPL course, I must admit I found it very useful having completed the degree course in Aero, due to the fact alot of the stuff I had seen before, for example, principles of flight, jet and piston engines, avionics, flight mechanics etc. However, at the same time I found my self learning alot too. Occasionally I found myself thinking 'oh that's what Mr X was on about at uni, never understood it until now'.
So, in a nutshell, like you said in your post, if you are willing to put the work in regardless you will reap the benefits and get a good set of results.
Good luck.
This question has been asked a few times here before, and attracts various different arguments, however I can give you my opinion for what its worth
.Like yourself I studied Aero Eng, and finished back in 1997. The bottom line for me in making the comparison, is, it is simply different.
I too found the Beng Aero course hard and demanding. However, even though there were approximately 10 exams a year to pass, you also had the pressure of an excessive amount of course work to complete each term. I found this particularly hard to manage and found the whole process quite stressful.
With respect to the ATPL course, again it is demanding in the respect of the volume of information you are required to digest, however for me, it was a question of being able to manage your time constructively. Like most people here that give an estimation of the required amount of wotk you need to do for the ATPL's, it will take over you life for a good 6 months if you choose to do it full time. But that 6 months will fly by believe me.
On starting the ATPL course, I must admit I found it very useful having completed the degree course in Aero, due to the fact alot of the stuff I had seen before, for example, principles of flight, jet and piston engines, avionics, flight mechanics etc. However, at the same time I found my self learning alot too. Occasionally I found myself thinking 'oh that's what Mr X was on about at uni, never understood it until now'.
So, in a nutshell, like you said in your post, if you are willing to put the work in regardless you will reap the benefits and get a good set of results.
Good luck.
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 548
Likes: 0
From: Scotland
London Metropolitan Uni
Just looking around for a residential atpl theory course....
the metropolitan course looks value for the cost. There website says
"The residential course is formally structured and you will attend lectures from 9:00am to 5:00pm, Monday to Friday throughout the 25 week course. The course is split into 3 phases of approximately equal duration and examinations are scheduled after each phase."
Is this class room layout, or university lecture style layout?
What are they like? do they have good pass rates?
Any other good theoritcal courses apart from the obvious expensive ones, please note, i have no intreast in doing a distance learning course. I get easily distracted
the metropolitan course looks value for the cost. There website says
"The residential course is formally structured and you will attend lectures from 9:00am to 5:00pm, Monday to Friday throughout the 25 week course. The course is split into 3 phases of approximately equal duration and examinations are scheduled after each phase."
Is this class room layout, or university lecture style layout?
What are they like? do they have good pass rates?
Any other good theoritcal courses apart from the obvious expensive ones, please note, i have no intreast in doing a distance learning course. I get easily distracted
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 743
Likes: 1
From: Kilmacolm
Hi Wbryce,
Can't comment about London Uni for groundschool with the exception that my PPL instructor thought they were pretty good when he did his ATPL Technicals with them (whilst he was an instructor back in the good CAA days).
Although Naples Air Center are relatively new on the block in terms of ground school, they seem to be doing pretty well and very reasonable in terms of cost. They also do residential school as well as distance learning.
This is why I've just enrolled for the distance learning version of Moduel 1 with NAC Ground school. I was torn between Bristol and NAC for a while but I finally(!) opted for the latter in the end. I should have my notes in a week or so but have already seen some of them when I was at NAC last July.
Just try not to get easily distracted in the evenings after class when you've got to do another three or four hours of self study.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Can't comment about London Uni for groundschool with the exception that my PPL instructor thought they were pretty good when he did his ATPL Technicals with them (whilst he was an instructor back in the good CAA days).
Although Naples Air Center are relatively new on the block in terms of ground school, they seem to be doing pretty well and very reasonable in terms of cost. They also do residential school as well as distance learning.
This is why I've just enrolled for the distance learning version of Moduel 1 with NAC Ground school. I was torn between Bristol and NAC for a while but I finally(!) opted for the latter in the end. I should have my notes in a week or so but have already seen some of them when I was at NAC last July.
Just try not to get easily distracted in the evenings after class when you've got to do another three or four hours of self study.
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,430
Likes: 44
From: FL390
wbryce
i did my atpls last year at london met and finished all 14 in 8 months with a couple of resits.
the classes are set out just as described and it is a classroom layout not a uni style lecture.. although a lot is listening and note taking there is a fair amount of interaction.
cannot comment on any other schools, i am here in naples at the moment and know that the recent results were excellent..
i would say though, prior to starting the atpls, make sure you have a good understanding of the PPL theory from the trevor thom books or similar.. it will make your life easier.. and on a nother note..be prepared to give your life up for 6 - 8 months.. you will study all day and then all night aswell !
regards
Spitty
i did my atpls last year at london met and finished all 14 in 8 months with a couple of resits.
the classes are set out just as described and it is a classroom layout not a uni style lecture.. although a lot is listening and note taking there is a fair amount of interaction.
cannot comment on any other schools, i am here in naples at the moment and know that the recent results were excellent..
i would say though, prior to starting the atpls, make sure you have a good understanding of the PPL theory from the trevor thom books or similar.. it will make your life easier.. and on a nother note..be prepared to give your life up for 6 - 8 months.. you will study all day and then all night aswell !
regards
Spitty
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 743
Likes: 1
From: Kilmacolm
Hi Spitty,
Good to hear about the excellent results that Naples Ground School students have obtained, having just enrolled!
Thanks for the tip. Hoping not to sound a bit arrogant I believe I have a pretty good understanding of the PPL Theory and a little more besides as I completed an FAA CPL/IR last summer with NAC. BUT I'm worrying about the level of mathematics and Physics so have, over the weekend been reading through my old GCSE Maths books that I still have from eleven to twelve years ago.
If you're flying NACs Seminole, please don't bend it as I'm flying it at the end of June...
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Good to hear about the excellent results that Naples Ground School students have obtained, having just enrolled!
Thanks for the tip. Hoping not to sound a bit arrogant I believe I have a pretty good understanding of the PPL Theory and a little more besides as I completed an FAA CPL/IR last summer with NAC. BUT I'm worrying about the level of mathematics and Physics so have, over the weekend been reading through my old GCSE Maths books that I still have from eleven to twelve years ago.
If you're flying NACs Seminole, please don't bend it as I'm flying it at the end of June...
Best wishes,
Charlie Zulu.
Joined: Jun 1999
Posts: 978
Likes: 1
From: In the SIM
CZ,
Dont worry too much about the level of Maths and Physics, it is not too bad. Make sure you have a look at things like vectors, transposition of formula, electromagnetic induction, basic magnetism, basic trig, pythagorous, conversions, such as pounds to litres, pounds to US gallons/imperial gallons etc and speed distance time calculations.
Wbryce, I too went to LMU, and Spitty has given you some good info. Like Spitty, I too did the full time residential course, and it did the job.
Spitty, how is the sun tan coming on? Got you mail thanks mate, started flying again yesterday. I do hope the Cb's have passed and you are back up in the skies.
Good luck all.
Dont worry too much about the level of Maths and Physics, it is not too bad. Make sure you have a look at things like vectors, transposition of formula, electromagnetic induction, basic magnetism, basic trig, pythagorous, conversions, such as pounds to litres, pounds to US gallons/imperial gallons etc and speed distance time calculations.
Wbryce, I too went to LMU, and Spitty has given you some good info. Like Spitty, I too did the full time residential course, and it did the job.
Spitty, how is the sun tan coming on? Got you mail thanks mate, started flying again yesterday. I do hope the Cb's have passed and you are back up in the skies.
Good luck all.
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
From: London uk
Currently I am on the part A bit of the course and so far cant complain about anything at LGU at all the lectures are straight forward enough and plenty of understanding is shown by the lecturers to old ******s like me......
The home work later( rewiteing of notes etc is a chore but has to be done normally about 3 hours a night....
The only complain I have is they have just put up the price of coffee in the refrectory to 80p ( bloody criminal).....dont they know I am a poor student!!!!!!
Mark XXXX
The home work later( rewiteing of notes etc is a chore but has to be done normally about 3 hours a night....
The only complain I have is they have just put up the price of coffee in the refrectory to 80p ( bloody criminal).....dont they know I am a poor student!!!!!!
Mark XXXX