Flower,

As a very new PPL and one of those who recently took up your kind offer (through PPRUNE) of a day with Cardiff ATC, I am happy to say that you and your colleagues have helped to reduce my "fear" of cocking up when asking for clearances, by letting us to see the friendly and helpful faces behind the "stern" voices on the radio. Your posts on this thread also reinforce the fact that most ATC'ers are there to help and oblige low hours PPL's such as myself as much as possible. Many, many thanks for this.

However, I have to say that I still find myself sitting in the other camp - > Bad R/T = "Remain clear of Controlled Airspace". Firstly, its down to human nature. But secondly, have a look at Section 10 of the CAA Safety Sense leaflet on Radiotelephony. This contains the following quote plus a couple of examples of both good and bad R/T.

" A radio call
delivered in a professional manner
will be treated accordingly, whereas,
a poorly structured and hesitant call
will probably lead the controller to
question the pilot’s ability to
understand and follow instructions.
If there is any doubt, the ATCO will
not issue a clearance to transit
controlled airspace without adequate
separation from other traffic."

The good example of RT in the leaflet gets a clearance, the bad example gets a "Remain Clear of CAS".

Safety Sense leaflet available here- http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/ssl22.pdf

So sorry Flower, but even the CAA seems to think you should be turning bumbling idiots (such as myself) down.:hmm:

Mr. W:)

Mr Wolfie

The good example of RT in the leaflet gets a clearance, the bad example gets a "Remain Clear of CAS".

I agree with this. I was sitting in the back of a plane last year when the pilot (an ATPL flying BA 747s) completely casually asked Gatwick for an overhead transit at a few thousand feet, and got it. It was fun looking down at the Gatwick runway.

The other day I flew 2 miles outside of a Class A CTA (10nm dia circle) and they told me I was infringing it. I knew exactly where I was (GPS, DME to their ILS, and later just to drive the point home I got a radar range from them!!) and knew this was untrue, so after landing I phoned up the very ATCO; he told me they get so many "VFR pilots" busting their CTA that they tell them they are infringing even when they are not!! Sadly I have to say that with the navigation techniques taught in the PPL this comes as no suprise - but that's another subject!

Glasgow shouldn't be a problem at all in my experience, flown through numerous times going to Cumbernauld mainly (from Prestwick) and I've never been refused entry so far, sometimes in a non transponder equipped a/c in addition to fluffing lines! :O I'm sure if you ask them nicely they'll let you through or at worst ask you to orbit for a few mins if a bit of traffic crops up. Good luck with the trip.