I'm with the mnemonic / memory check camp, if you're flying simple aircraft or are familiar with the type. That's 2 quite big "ifs"... if you normally fly a plane with a carburettor engine you'll wish you'd used the checklist when trying to start an identical looking fuel injected model!

I was taught to fly without using checklists, using a "back to front" then "left to right" cockpit check pre-start, and mnemonics for pre-take off and circuit checks. Emergency checks had to be memorised.

Post PPL on a new type, I got into the habit of using a checklist. One day I skipped a line by accident, and almost took off without locking the canopy - a potentially fatal mistake in a Slingsby T67. A pre-take off mnemonic check would have been safer.

Someone above said that checklists are safer when used properly. On multi-crew aircraft, one person reads from the list while the other makes the check. Nothing gets missed. When you're alone, it's too easy to get distracted and miss a line...

In my view, everyone should use a quick memory check of the things that could kill you on take off & landing.

I'm with the mental crowd as well - so to speak. At least once I have left terra firma.

The reason for posting though is to point out to Chuck that as far as I am aware most of us turn final here in the UK too!:) :) It's only those military types that do it more than once! They do that strange run and break thing as well! For some reason ATC won't let me try it in my Arrer!

QDM - A fully subscribed member of the "It'll never happen to me club":rolleyes:

Like many things in life, only break the rules once you're experienced enough to know which ones you can break, and why.

Me? Checklists? I'm sticking to the rules.

One day the "gear down" check might actually result in me finding some gear that isn't already welded in that position. FFF is spot on. :-)

PS That Europa ride offer isn't forgotten. :D

On the contrary, if anything I tend to be rather an over-anxious flyer. Written checklists increase my anxiety because I have no feel for what I am doing.

Too much anxiety is bad for you, just as too little is.

QDM

Every aeroplane has checks, whether you memorise them, or write them down in a list, there is always a Check List.

The RAF make student pilots remember all of their checks; however, the average PPL does not fly frequently enough for them to memorise and retain all of this information. Consequently, the Check List is the norm and forms part of a schools standardisation.

Pilots should not be reading a Check List in the circuit, all important checks should be memorised. Less important items and subsequent actions are better carried out from a check list to ensure they are correct. How often do you have an alternator failure and is it reasonable for low houred pilots to memorise infrequent emergency drills?

Back to the original thread, there is no examination requirement that necessitates a pilot making a check list!

So that's why Cherrytrees and 172s make such ggigantic circuits - they're all reading their checklists!

Checklists are inappropriate for small aeroplanes - and on big aeroplanes they are used (as their name implies) as a check - that the the item has been done, not as a 'shopping list' of things to do.

Externals are obvious (once you are familiar with the aeroplane) and don't need a checklist.

Internals - start at the left lower side of the cockpit and work your way round.

In flight: this is the last place yoiu should be reading a checklist. And certainly not in the circuit. Look outside all the time (with brief glances to the panel), memorise the checks, and don't do innapprpriate ones (e.g. gear down in a fixed gear plane). If you do, the day you fly a retractable you'll chant "gear down" just like you've been doing for years - and do nothing else, just like you've been doing for years. Humans are creatures of habit.

Apply brain, not rote.

SSD.

SSD, I agree with half of your post.

I agree. In flight, I always memorize check-lists. There are a few exceptions - rarely used check-lists which aren't critical, and aren't needed at critical stages of flight. For example, when flying an Aztec, I was taught to memorize the actions to take in case of engine failure, up to the point of getting the engine feathered. Once the aircraft is under control and the engine featered, I'd reach for the check-list and read out the engine re-start checks. But in general, in-flight checks in every aircraft I've ever flown (and I suspect all single-pilot aircraft) should be memorized - certainly the downwind checks should be.

But on the ground, I don't see any reason why you shouldn't follow a check-list to ensure that items aren't missed. What if the panel of your aircraft is laid out such that left-to-right won't work? What if the fuel selector is to the right of the fuel pump, for example? You'd need to make an exception - work left to right, except remember to turn the fuel on first. How many exceptions are acceptable before you need to use a checklist? Why not just use a checklist anyway? I can't see any reason not to use a check-list. When I was training, I constantly forgot to turn my mobile phone off before taking off - so I wrote it on the top of my check-list! Working across the panel from left to right would certainly never include checking my mobile phone is off - but my check-list did.

Externals is an interesting one though - I personally prefer not to use a check-list for externals, because the check-list can't possibly cover everything, and by following a check-list you're more likely to miss something. Much better to keep your eyes on the aircraft, keep them moving over the surface looking for anything which seems out of place, whether it's on the check-list or not. But I can definitely see that there's a good argument both ways for externals.

As for not doing inappropriate checks, as I said earlier on the thread, I disagree - learn one check-list, and use it for every aircraft, even if there are inappropriate checks. I've flown aircraft with fixed and retractable gear, with and without carb-heat, with and without a mixture control, with and without a fuel pump to turn on for go-around, with and without hatches or doors - but I always check all of those items down-wind. I've never yet forgotten to check an item on one aircraft, just because I didn't need to check it on the previous aircraft I flew, and I'd have thought you'd be more likely to do this by trying to memorize different check-lists for each aircraft.

FFF
-------------

I suppose that the issue for the Human Factors Researchers is not so much "written or memory" as "how do we get people to do stuff consistently (and really do it, not just say they're doing it)?"

I was taught on the basis that I never used a checklist when in flight, save in respect of low-level emergencies such as alternator failure (ie: if something has gone wrong that isn't about to kill you, get out the checklist and read the "how to fix it" procedures). I am broadly in favour of doing all or most checks from memory, particularly on types with which you are familiar. I have in the past caught myself parrotting checks from a written list without really looking at the thing I was supposedly checking, but have equally been guilty of parrotting FREDA checks and pre-landing checks from memory (speaking them but not really doing them). The latter tendency was (mostly) beaten out of me towards the end of my PPL training and when doing some type conversions thereafter. Nowadays I try to make myself point at things as well as saying out loud what I'm supposed to be checking.

For my regular aircraft I use the T-Tiger M-Moths F-Fly G-Good and H-High mnemonic pre take-off (Trim, Throttle Friction, Mixture, Mags, Fuel, Flaps, Gauges, Gyros, Hatches, Harnesses). When I fly other aircaft (the ones I was trained on or flew just after getting my licence), I tend to use the written checklist on the ground only, for start-ups, and have sometimes resorted to post-it notes stuck in front of me saying things like "CARB HEAT!" (as I usually fly fuel injected types) or "FUEL!" (as I usually fly with only one tank, and have to remember if I have two).

I am in two minds about the virtues of practices such as announcing "carb heat negative" when doing run-ups in a fuel injected aircraft, or "gear fixed" when preparing to land in a fixed gear aircraft (although I do both of these). The point here is that reminding myself that I don't need carb heat in an aircraft where I don't need it doesn't necessarily help me to remember that I do need it in an aircraft which where I do. I don't know whether the same would apply in the case of bendy gear as I haven't yet tried that.


PS: Chuck, I agree: where does this "Finals" nonsense come from?

Checklist on the ground, memory in the air for me.

I had a checkride with a certain large UK PPL school's instructor once who chastised me for not reading the checklist downwind. He wouldn't accept the fact that I covered all the relevant items from memory (via the mnemonic BUMPFFLS), in a much more safe manner than reading the checklist.

IMHO a busy circuit is a dangerous place to be heads down on the checklist.

foggy.

There are two ways check lists are accomplished, single pilot operations and multi crew operations.

In single pilot operations memory checks are generally preferable. The secret to safety when using a memory list is to " ALWAYS " check every item in your list. Items that do not pertain to the vehicle you are flying at the time are checked by saying " not required " that will give continuity to your check list.

Multi crew operation check lists are chellenge and answer checks performed by the crew.

I personally use an old military list I was taught when I first started flying, it covers everything I fly.

The key is " thinking " Not monkey see monkey do.

Cat Driver

On the ground I like my students to use checklists, Why? Simply because the majority of PPL's do not fly often enough to be able to memorise everything aswell as necessary.
The school I teach at has 5 different types and personally I very rarely use a checklist unless it's a new machine or I haven't flown it for a while.
I will admit that not using a check list has occasionally caused me to forget an item, but my pre-take off drills have always caught them before I get off the ground.

In the air ALL checks in a single crew machine MUST be done from memory. Foghorn, I would kick the backside of the instructor who wanted you to have your head down on downwind. Idiot!!

As Chuck and others have already said, nobody should just read a checklist. I've lost count of the number of times someone has said a check and thats all they've done, not actually actioned the item.

Checklists are vitally important, but only as an aide to memory NOT a replacement.

An old captain once showed me a great trick. At intervals during the cruise whilst we were chatting he would turn to me and ask "is there anything wrong with this picture??" Then we would have a look around for anything that may have been overlooked. Top system, usually we never found anything, but sometimes...

A proper checklist will tell you how to operate the aircraft. As an examiner I check if you can operate the A/C in accordance with the checklist, not whether you use a checklist. I prefer the use of a checklist on the ground (pre-flight AND after flight) and memory in the air

However, if you decide not to use one and forget something significant I have little sympathy.

Cheers

They aren't "downwind " checks they are "pre-landing" chx -carried out, often, whilst downwind to land but presumably still carried out if you join on final or base..?

Checklists:part 1
 

There is a LOT of negative reinforcement that happens in PPL training...chanting gear down and locked in a fixed undercarriage aircraft is a classic example...its dumb!

Every pilot uses a checklist system of some description, whether it is used to best advantage is a different story.

Checklist Systems

1/. Pneumonic (good system)
2/. Written (Ok in some areas but generally bad)
3/. Electronic
4/. Mechanical (SAFGO/TAB type)

Whatever system you choose it MUST be tailored to the aircraft type.

The big problem with written checklists is the temptation to include lots of items on them. The other problem with written checklists is they require careful attention to not lose your place. They are a distraction and generally only used sparingly in non critical phases of flight.

Electronic checklists can be good PROVIDED they are tailored to the aircraft...one aircraft I have flown (Citation 560) had an electronic checklist in the radar...it had never been tailored and there were items that were not relevant to the aircraft which you had to skip over...there was another item "Passenger Seats"! Yes we had them and they appeared bolted to the floor!!:confused:

It was a reasonable 'system' that was totally negated because it was at least 20% BS items.

The best checklist I have ever used was a SAFGO checklist we had in Talair (PNG). It was a checklist with tabs that covered items when the scan was completed and the item checked. The same checklist, with tailored checks, was in every aircraft in the company...C206, BN2, BE55, Dhc6 and Banderante...they were all flown single pilot. Each Tab had two or three items that were related either by system or geography in the cockpit thus each tab was a backup check to a memory scan.

We had a similar ‘slide & tab’ system in PX F28s, Dash 7s which was also fantastic. Like the Talair SAFGOs it was tailored to the aircraft and not one BS item was evident.

I own a Bonanza and have flown virtually every Cessna and Piper type that has been produced since the 60's...all with a scan and pneumonic checklist (SE only).

Scans

Scans are what airline/jet pilots use to check each system is in the correct configuration. It is memory thing which relies on understanding the system completely and knowing what configuration you want for the phase of flight you are in.

In every aircraft I have flown I’ve started bottom left and worked geographically around the cockpit.

It is a very good system and believe me if it works in a 747 it will work in your basic SE aircraft!

The above scan would be called something like the ‘Initial Acceptance Scan’. Another example of a scan would be checking the brake pressure/antiskid when the gear is selected down. Those are things that go together…you must develop a discipline that ensures doing one thing triggers you to complete your scan of associated systems.

When I’m passing through 10000’ in our company Falcon that triggers in me a scan.

Landing lights/Tail flood light/Belt sign.

I’m not interested in a rote learnt answer to each item…only that it is in the correct configuration for the phase of flight. The answer to 'exterior lights' in the transition checklist is "set"...which may mean on or off depending on whether we are descending or climbing.

Checklists ‘Responses’

This falls into two categories, Single Pilot and Multi crew.

In a single pilot light aircraft scenario where you might be using a pneumonic there is no such thing as a standard rote call out to yourself. Your pneumonic, if it is well thought out, will prompt you to check a system and ensure it is how you want it to be for the phase of flight and the aircraft you are flying, more on this later.

In multi crew aircraft rote learnt standard responses to standard calls are essential. What you are actually doing, scan wise, is the same, but a standard response to the challenge is required so that the PNF knows you have understood what he is asking and carried out the scan appropriately. A good pilot in multi crew ops, either Captain or F/O will know the others scans as well as his own and checked quietly that you have not missed anything anyway.

An example from our Falcon checklist would be;

PNF: “Landing Gear”

PF: “Down, three greens, antiskid checked”

PNF: “Down, three greens, antiskid checked”

You can see if I just respond “Down” or “Down 3 Greens” then the other pilot is going to just call the checklist item again until I answer correctly…which ensures that I do the scan correctly.

A Checklist System that works for you.

This heading assumes you are not working for an airline/company where the CP/Head of C&T has designed a system that you must use.

My system might be the best example. It has been refined over many thousands of hours and works for me. Parts of my system are aircraft type specific, i.e. SE Piston or Multi engine jet, but much carries over between the two.

1/. I’m going to hop in my Bonanza soon for the first time in a long time so I’ll review the Flight Manual and refresh my memory on important stuff.

2/. Performance: I have a system which allows me to do a weight and balance and basic takeoff limitations in about 30 seconds. It is based on tabulated data done on an excel spreadsheet printed out and kept in a clear stiff plastic sleeve. I have one for the Falcon and one for the Bonanza. It uses standard weights. I have another which gives me max allowed takeoff weight for almost any runway. It uses a reference runway length and has wind down one side which gives me an ‘effective’ length and a weight.

They took a lot of work and thought to design and fill with correct info…the plus is in so doing I understand those aspects of the aircraft thoroughly and can have correct info even if it’s 0330 and I’m tired.

3/. Preflight Inspection: If you need a written checklist to do this much beyond 1st solo there is a problem. Whether I’m walking around my Bonanza or the Falcon it is just a slow walk checking everything is ok and ready for flight. The dip sticks are in a different place in each aircraft and there are of course extra/different things on the Falcon compared to the Bonanza but that was covered in the type rating…I can find them without a mud map/checklist.

4/. Pre start: Covered above in ‘Initial Acceptance Scan’ Once completed the aircraft is set up to the point where you next will introduce electrons to wires.

5/. Engine Start: There are only two systems here. Carby or Fuel Injected. If you need a checklist then get out of the aircraft and go home, see point one above.

6/. Start Scan (for a typical piston single):

Brakes/throttle/mixture/beacon/clear prop.

7/. After start:

RPM/Temps and pressures/volts and amps/radio master.

8/. Pre taxi: While waiting for the engine to warm up you might brief your departure.

R Runway: Which one, wet or dry, full length or intersection?

A Asymmetric: What will I do if an engine fails before V1 (on the ground if SE/light aircraft) after V1? Which way will I turn, what is a good minimum safe altitude, IMC/VMC, follow SID or maneuver visually?

N Normal Departure: SID, Visual departure, how? MSA/LSA/Transition altitude?

N Navaids: What navaids do I need, are they set up as I want and identified?

9/. Engine run-up: Need a written checklist for that? See point 1/.

10/. Pre Line up: TEMPFICH

Throttle friction, Engine, Mags, Prop, Fuel/flaps, Instruments, Cabin, Hatches & harnesses.

I’m not interested in rote answers to the above pneumonic…I’m ensuring everything is ready one last time before committing to a takeoff. If you need a written checklist to tell you to check the mixture and boost pump, tank selection under the heading fuel then hand in you license. If ‘Engine’ doesn’t prompt more than “hmm bolted on the aircraft in front of me” then go home…I don’t want you in the same sky as me!

11/. After takeoff: Aircraft clean, climb power set, temps and pressures.

Throttle, mixture, Fuel, pitch, cowl flaps and engine instruments are one interrelated ‘system’…when you adjust/think about one you adjust/think about all.

12/. Cruise: Read the second sentence of 11/.

13/. Descent: Think logically of what YOU are going to do from TOPD to touchdown.

Descent Point?
Transition Altitude?
LSA/MSA?
Approach…visual/instrument? Brief/revue the approach plate and the aerodrome diagram so you know where you are going after touchdown.
Fuel to hold/divert?
Notams?
Navaids?

These days the above is second nature but when I was a new F/O in airlines I had a filthy little ditty to help me remember the first letters of each heading in logical order. I would write each heading down on a scrap piece of paper and use it as a ‘checklist’ for my descent brief. A ditty for the above might be. Despite Prior Training All Little Miss Annie F**king New was Nothing:D

I remember one I had for the Dash 7 ended in Lascivious Anal Sex…which stood for Lsa/msa, Approach and Special procedures…whatever works for you.:D

14/. Pre landing: BUMFICH…you all know what this means and combined with PUF on finals should keep you from any big stuffups. Again I’m not interested in rote responses but whether each system, and its ancillary systems, is in the correct configuration for the phase of flight. In 2 aircraft I’ve flown/trained in, C404 and Aerostar, the pitch remained in the cruise setting until after touchdown…so P doesn’t always mean ‘pitch fully fine’.

Chuck.

THE REST.
 

15/. Not a lot to do after landing…except don’t hit anything or pull the gear up instead of the flaps…not uncommon in Beechcrafts…I use only my index finger to select flaps in the Bonanza and when retracting after landing say to myself “Flaps identified and retracted” before doing it with one finger in a deliberate manner…little hard to select gear up with just one finger!

16/. Pre shut down: Park brake set, a general panel scan turning off anything which needs to be off, live mag check, mixture idle cutoff, ignition off, master off and key removed.

Do you need a written checklist to remember to chock and tie down the aircraft?

It’s all about discipline and engrained good habits…for instance when I bring an aircraft to a stop I set the park brake…always…it’s so ingrained as to be subconscious almost…in fact I’ve walked back to an aircraft more than once to check I hadn’t forgotten…because I couldn’t remember doing it… and in every case I found it set.

The above is a ‘Checklist System’ which draws on many different systems and uses each in an area where it is suited. Even in the Falcon after all the challenge and response double checking I still scan gear/flaps on 200’ finals and say to myself “Gears down and green, flaps set and cleared to land”.

Chuck.

In my little experience so far i've always used checklists on the ground anyway, and air is mostly memory items. And to me the checklist gives the security that i haven't forgotten anything, it won't be the first time someone forgot to put something on for take-off and ends up a mile behind the end of the RWY. I wouldn't like that to happen to me anyway.
I can imagine it'll be a pain in the but to do them over and over again, but hey it only takes one extra minute to make sure you covered everything.
Why would the manufacturer otherwise require checklists to be on board and performed?? It's handy to just take the time and figure out what you check everything for (duh) then i think to most people it would actually become a CHECKlist not just a do list....

Just thought I'd add my two penneth here.

For a lot of people check lists provide a feeling of security. For the irregular flyer they assist in not over looking a check.

Do I use them? NO

I agree with QDM that checklists in light singles remove the 'thinking and understanding' behind what is going on. As an instructor I find many students run through the list without really 'checking' at all. It is scary at first to fly without a list but if you have been taught how to monitor and scan the panel in a reliable and logical way then there really is no problem.

Lists also slow you down by at least a factor of two.

Also have you ever considered how strange it is that we advocate the use of lists on the ground (when there is no pressure or difficulty) yet always refer to memory when airborne (when you are under a considerablely higher workload)?

A final point I would add...............if you do use lists............then USE THEM ALL THE TIME!

Happy landings

JWF:)

Still plan to use a checklist on the ground - that's when somebody else may have been flying the same aircraft and left something awkward for me - like a trim wheel all the way back! I notice this particular item didn't get a mention in the preceding list!

I don't set my parking brake either - has to be left off so the grund crew can move the aircraft in and out of the hangar.

Grp,

Trims would be checked as part of the initial acceptance scan. If you then back that up by reading a checklist that double checks the important items that's perfectly fine...like I said whatever works for you.

I have not advocated 'don't use checklists'... very, very far from it...but there are various types of checklists that all have uses...I use all of them, pneumonic, written, electronic, mechanical and 'dirty ditty':D.

When I find out where I can buy a SAFGO type checklist for my Bonanza I'll fit it...along with tailored checks that back up my scans and double check the important items only.

In the world of professional aviation the park brake gets set as soon as you come to a halt...no matter what...to do otherwise would warrant a slap on the wrist (at least) on a line check...an exception would be on a turn around where once the chocks go in you would release the park brake to minimise heat transfer to the wheels to try and cool the brakes as much as possible before the next departure...hardly an issue in a C172.

Hugely long written checklists for Cessna and Piper type SE aircraft have evolved only because of product liability...i.e. the aircraft manufacturers need a way of getting out of rediculous lawsuits...if you've been around aviation long enough you would have noticed how pilots handling books for Cessnas etc are about 3 times as thick as they were 20+ years ago, for the same reason.

My 'checklist system' is a result of bush, airline and corporate experience. I've applied what I've learnt from each to what I do when I'm just flying for fun...it's kept me out of trouble for 10000+ hours...if that's not the test of time I don't know what is.

Chuck.