You can write what you like in your log book just be very very very careful about trying to claim time illegally towards the issue or revalidation of a rating.......

By illegal I mean one of, but not limited to, 2 pilots claiming the same flight time, a pilot claiming P2 in an aircraft certified for only one crew, claiming flight time in an aircraft as commander that you are not qualified to fly or as a student without an instructor. Thats a few but the list can go on.

Before we generate even more pages of drivel. The answer is simple, there is no P2 in a SEP regardless of what duties you performed.

Amen to that!!!

Drivel is good. There's a lot of it on this forum !

Let me don my explicit hat.

Two. both rated on type go somewhere. It is agreed that Pilot A will, for the duration of the flight be the flight commander. He does the departure and ten minutes into the flight asks pilot B beside him to fly the rest of the way and ten minutes from destination he, P1, will do the arrival.

P1 logs 20 mins. handling time and his mate logs the balance as P2.

Drivel is not good for aviation.

... is drivel.

FFS..... He can't. Simple. :ugh:

Now listen up chaps, i have had a great idea. All this EASA/FAA/TC/DGAC/ETC stuff is far to complicated. Let's just put the books in a big pile in the corner and make this sh1t up as we go along.

No?

Thought not.:ugh:

Since that is precisely what the UK CAA has been doing for the past 3 years, it's probably not a bad idea. The trick is, of course, not to put any of it in writing.

They've been doing that for at least the 3 decades+ that I've been an instructor.:rolleyes:


MJ:ok:

Ps. I agree with both ST, and Bose. You can put whatever you like in your logbook, but, in a SP SEP, P2=Passenger.

Well, yes and no, ChickenHouse.

The German regulations do require a 2nd person, but only specify that person needs to be authorized to operate the radio in English. It's not actually required they hold a pilot licence. Calling it "2-crew" (and logging it as such) is therefore rather dubious and probably unjustifiable.

The details are in LuftBO § 32 Zusammensetzung der Flugbesatzung.

German "-besatzung" translates to crew and §32 LuftBO is about crew constitution, §32(2) states the necessity for a 2-crew with both pilots holding the appropriate licenses when performing IFR flights, with some exceptions stated in §32(3) for small aircraft. So, in principal you have to have a 2-crew for IFR, but it is not a must in small aircraft. How the regulation details are for logging these hours if two pilots fulfill §32(2)? No idea, as well as this comes together with overruling EASA "treatment".

Sorry to revive a not so old thread, but I have a similar question.

Friend of mine owns an extra 300 and I do some flying with him. He is not an instructor, but simply an unlimited aerobatic pilot with mega experience.

I fly with him and I need x amount of hours on type for insurance to cover me.

I can fly the plane no problems but I cannot log it due to insurance requirement, so I'm not P1 yet, but with him on board I do my flying.

My question is can these hours be logged as p2( dual time ) or am I wasting my time?

Thanks in advance!

(1) You can write whatever you like in your log book.

(2) What you can't do is count those hours towards any licence or rating, as they don't count as P1 (because you weren't), they don't count as Pu/t (because the other guy isn't an instructor), and they don't count as P2 (because there's no such thing).

(3) Whether the insurance company counts such flying, which you're doing with the legal status of a passenger, towards their requirements or not is a matter for the insurance company - you'll have to ask them.

You're wasting your time....

....unless, that is, you can suggest to him that he becomes a CRI(aeros). Hardly difficult - some sticky-pen training and 3 hours of flight instruction plus an assessment of competence. Then you could log all your time with him as PU/T.

Some great advice guys, that sums it up so:(

I think i'll just head over to Cambridge aeroclub and get my rating there and then worry about it.

Cheers,

Yes, you can write the hours in your logbook, but, No, you cannot claim these hours for ratings or license issues. If it is only insurance, talk to them and ask wether they need PIC hours or accept such alternate training you receive. And further, No, you are not wasting time, independent of rating or license, as you learn to fly the beastie with your friend and that does much more real value than any piece of paper.

Yes.

And in particular: