Training scotland
 

Hi people i am a newbie so please go easy on me.

I am about to embark on my ppl journey in Ayrshire/west scotland, i am looking for advice of where the best school may be for me.

My plans are to do a ppl then possibly a cpl afterwords, I'm not relay interested in flying for an airline, don't get me wrong i,d love to make a living from flying but i already run a successful garage/mot business close to home so don't want to be away all the time, a part time job flying lighter aircraft or instructing would be good. as i already have an income I'd be doing it for the love of flying.

So the big question is where to learn I'm thinking on a more intensive short term plan, maybe pick a day every week and stick to it doing some morning flying then some study at lunch then back up in afternoon.

Ive got about 15 hours as pic on flex wing microlights and 4 hours solo, I had a bit of an accident at work then my plane got burnt and ended up never getting back to it , so never got to finish my license.

I think i will pick the flying part no problem its the exams i will struggle with, thanks for listening and i await some views of what my best plan may be

Kenny :ok:

Hi Kenny
Presuming that you're looking at a PPL(A), at Prestwick there is Prestwick Flying Club (where I'm at) and Prestwick Flight Center.
Both do PPLs. The club is - as the name suggests - more of a club environment, where you will find everyone from BA and Easyjet Captains doing some aerobatics to retired folk going out for a bimble. The instructors are all hugely experienced (chief is a current British Airways captain) and do it mainly for the fun of instructing.
As they are all only part time instructors, you may struggle to do a more intensive course - but they match instructor and student together to try and make the best fit. Planes are a PA28 or a Chipmunk. If you are thinking about joining a group, or owning your own plane after completing your PPL, you can probably get much more involved with everything (including the running of the club) than else where, as they don't just teach you to fly to pass a test.

I can't comment as much on the flight centre, other that its a more normal "school" environment (with a secretary to organise everyone / answer the phone etc!). They have been very friendly every time I've gone round and you are more likely to be able to do an intensive course there.

I'd email, rather than phoning the club as there are no permanent staff, and arrange a time to see what its about. With the flight center, give them a ring as they have permanent staff at the end of the phone.

Happy flying!

scotland flying
 

Thanks riverrock sounds like i should contact them both and go from there i will get some prices etc and see how it goes, maybe book a trial lesson with both and see where that takes me.

Didn,t even know the prestwick flight centre existed maybe pay them a visit as they are more likely to be there.

I will ring the club too and see where it goes. I was thinking of entering a syndicate or share scheme maybe cheaper to do it sooner rather than later what do you think?

Cover ALL your options
 

Ecosse,

Where do you live, and where do you work? There are some other options unless you are already set on Prestwick Airport.

There is a club at Glasgow Airport. We operate a club at Cumbernauld. Both should be considered.

Happy to give more information if required.

Allan

Oh - and you should check out these threads:
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...-scotland.html
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...8-jaa-ppl.html

Use the search tool - you will find many others.

I'm not sure how you can have 15hrs pilot in command but only 4 hours solo - but thats me just being pedantic... (15 hours would be P/UT see http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/CAP804rfs.pdf)

As for syndicate / share scheme - good if you can get it. I suspect it would be hard to find one that takes in student pilots - although in saying that, I'm in one.

Some syndicates like it as it keeps their aircraft in the air, and so the cost down for others... Schools don't necessarily like them as it could reduce their profits, and I suspect there are very few aircraft in the UK that are being over used. Much more likely to happen on the microlight scene I suspect.

The groups I know about would need a personal recommendation from a current member before you would be invited to join, so I'm not much help. I think there are at least 4 group owned planes at PF Club, two of which have had new starts in them recently, but both have close connections to other group members (both through marriage!). I have no idea about the flight centre.

It is worth looking at other places too (although Prestwick Airport is a great location). If you live near to where you are flying from, you spend less fuel in your car, you can look out the window to determine the current weather, and you wont have so far to go home if there is some reason that stops you flying!

If you're in Ayrshire, really Prestwick is the place to go, it's not particularly cheap flying but by the time you finish the course you'll have a lot less trips to Glasgow/Cumbernauld and that really does add up.

I only know instructors at the Club and I have only good things to say about what I've seen. It's all very informal which may or may not be a bit frustrating but the instruction will be from really very experienced guys doing it for fun, you'll learn a lot more :). That said I'd doubt you'd have a bad time at any of the schools within a sensible distance from you :).

As for CPL. I'd keep my mind off that for now, there's a long way between PPL and CPL in terms of flying (and exams!).

There's also a 3-Axis microlight school at Strathaven if I'm not mistaken, something worth considering as well :).

Kenny has listed his location as Central Scotland which would suggest that Either Perth or Cumbernauld would be suitable.

glasgow
 

thanks for more input guys:ok:

i would def consider cumbernauld or glasgow i went to cumbernauld today exactly one hour from my house and seemed good also it may work out cheaper going there, my plan of doing 4 hours a week would cost me 20 quid in fuel per week and going 13 times is £260 in fuel over a 52hour course (which may be over or under what i need to get ppl) so maybe a good saving could be had going to either.

i live and work in kilwining so prestwick is close it may work out better will need to wait and see:)

as for keeping my mind of cpl i see what you mean though i always aim high, and if i aim for that and end up with a ppl i will still be happy :)

3 axis i have considered and tbh i am still considering it but got a little scared with the old flexwing in the weather so not sure its for me :)

He said Ayrshire/ West Scotland in his initial post.

Agreed that you should look at your closest school first. I believe that Glasgow Flying Club still does some lessons but if he is the other side of Glasgow then Cumbernauld would be closer / great.

i noticed theres another option border air at cumbernauld so may check them out too :) anyone had any dealings with them??

Kenny,

There are 2 schools at Cumbernauld; did you get a look at both? I works with ACS Flight Training at Perth who conduct the full Commercial Training Program.

I agree with 'Dan' - one step at a time before looking at CPL fully.....but worth looking at future options. Air Service Training at Perth Airport are currently the only Scottish option for the commercial ground school - although many look at Distance Learning.

I suggest a '30 minute trial lesson' at each site. All hours flown will count and at least you will then have a REAL insight and be able to make a good decision. Make sure you let them know you intend to complete a course and it is not only for a taster.

Allan

Pedant mode on/ Tut Tut , Ecosse....Kilwinn ing!!! ?mode off.

That haven of calm,made famous by Billy Connoly , when he and his mates used to frequent the "Kings" in Irvine....I digress:O

If you have a good look at stuff like the BMAA and LAA websites, you'll quickly learn that there are several light Aircraft which are either Microlights,or available as Gp."A" or Microlight depending on wing and engine options.
Many of the Composite ones are ,performance and economy-wise , superior to "spamcan" trainers like Cessna152 and Piper Cherokee. They're a totally different beastie to a Flexwing,whilst still being in the same classification...and, as you say, you've already some hours logged on Microlights,which, AFAIK would count toward a License for that group.

Prestwick seems like your sensible option,as it's "just up the road"-believe me, an hour's commuting journey in the car can be very tedious on a regular basis and you're not thinking about all the gormless tourists in the sumer!
'Course, you COULD get your Microlight license locally. then use it to FLY to another Airfield to do a Gp "A" License. :)

The kings is a great pub been there a few times,

will book 30 min with both prestwick clubs and go from there.

I think thats my best bet, true what you say i used to travel an hour from "kilwinning" to do microlight and maybe thats partly why i don't have a license.

maybe later i will do a few hours conversion and will be able to fly a 3 axis too. :ok:

hope the flying club hasn't so many pedantic's lol!!!! :ok:

Steve, read the original post, "Kilwining" is the least of his errors.


"its the exams i will struggle with" ..... no !!!! Sherlock!


Kenny, I have no doubt that you will be able to get a PPL, but perhaps it's just as well that you don't have your heart set on an airline job.

thanks
 

Thanks air police for your helpful input on my question. :mad::mad:

Hope the flying school i choose doesn't have people like you in it.

And as for the airline pilot comment that just confirms your a :mad::mad::mad:

to everyone else thanks for the input its appreciated :ok:

Welcome to Pprune. :bored:

Try Prestwick first. If you work in Kilwinning, that would be your easiest commute. When learning to fly there are several factors to consider-

Your availability
Aircraft availability
Instructor availability
Weather
Your budget
Your specific times when you can and cannot go

All can conspire to make the task, a challenge. A local school is preferable, within say 30 minutes travel time. Also the weather can be very local also. If you are fairly near to your chosen airfield/club, it can cut down on wasted ground time.

Good luck.

No problem being rubbish at spelling and grammar and flying commercially :p

Thanks
 

Thanks for the input maxred i will take this on board, my comment about "people like you in it" was aimed at the pedantic few bitter people who always seem to pop up on any forum Ive been on, who don't help and only criticize others and are alway right

no body likes a smart ar*e :D

ohh maybe I'm being pedantic but its, "PPRuNe" and not "Pprune" LOL:) :ugh:

I am even reading on other threads that a growing percentage of commercial pilots can't even hand fly a Boeing properly:confused:

Spelling does'nt have a bloody look in:sad:

pilots
 

I actually know 3 commercial pilots,who fly for "local" small airlines, and trust me spelling would be the least of there worries , if you met 2 of them you would never believe in a million years they were pilots!!! i wouldn't sit in a car beside them :ooh::ooh:

That has to be the funniest thing on pprune this week!

Classic........:D

Just remember :) you will be going to your flying school more than 13 times, probably more like 26. Things never turn out the way you want them to in training, there'll be a bunch of reasons, not the least of which will be weather. It can get very frustrating not being able to do anything else until the day and when the weather is marginal you end up at the school anyway which may well turn out to be 2 hours of wasted driving.

Most of the schools will give you good training but you have an excellent PPL club on your doorstep at Prestwick, availability might be irritating but on the days when you can't get to fly, at least you'll be close enough to do something else.

Just an observation :) Email Prestwick flying club, go see them and take a lesson.

Yep, good points. There are other issues. Glasgow will certainly assist your holds. Busy airport means multiple holds at Erskine Bridge. Good for holding level altitude, sore on pocket.

CBN limited access to 'big airport' ATC and movements.

Prestwick can give best of both words. Not too busy, but still mixing with the bigger boys, and R/T with an international feel.

Yep Prestwick a must check.

email
 

Nice to see the edit for grammar or should i say grammer and spelling was picked up pmsl!! i should never have doubted you guys would have missed it :ok:

I have mailed both "Prestwick Flying Club" and "Prestwick Flight School"

Will try and get a flight this weekend or before with one or the other hopefully, and see how this goes i will let you all know.

Prestwick has a lot going for it if you live in Kilwinning rather than Central Scotland. Prestwick, (ATC & School) have been very friendly when I've been there, on my Nav Test, my QXC and when I had to Wx Divert there when Oban got cut off by rain.

A friend of mine is doing his circuit training at Perth as there are no landing fees, so that saves quite a bit of money compared to Cumbernauld or Prestwick. Once he has done his solo he'll go back to Cumbernauld for more lessons, but expects to split his training hours between both airfields as it will give him more experience.

The big advantage, at a price, of training at Prestwick, or any full ATC airport is that you can go to another one without being nervous. I know some people avoid "Edinburgh West" BECAUSE they have ATC rather than using that as a reason to talk to them. Another advantage is the length of the main, big looooong downwind legs, loads of time for checks and height adjustments.

The downside is that at Cumbernauld or Perth, you can almost always, startup and go, and when you rejoin and land, you park right away. Holding at Prestwick can be expensive and makes the paying for the landing fees seem all the more unfair.

There will be days when you arrive and don't fly, but as a student, very few of those trips will be wasted. Sit in the aircraft and run through drills, or just concentrate on looking at the view from the driving seat when on the ground. It helps you know where you are when landing. Practice operating the Trim. Flaps, Carb Heat, Radio and Transponder (with power off) and you will find it easier to do when you are in the air. Doing this stuff is free, and it should reduce the time that you need to pay for.

Ask instructors (and students) if you can sit in on their briefs and debriefs, there will be learning points for you in the work that others do , whether they get it right or wrong.

Listen to ATC on a scanner (don't buy one without a full numeric keypad) and become familiar with the chatter so that you can pick it up easier in the aircraft.

There is an emotional cycle of change during your training, and at times you will find yourself on top of the world and at other times you will be in the well of despair. No matter how you feel after a lesson, bear in mind that the phrase, "This too will pass" is very relevant.

If you want to do it cheaply, do it often, flying is a perishable skill, especially when you are a novice.

I took a video camera with me and recorded my instructor doing a "perfect" circuit. I watched it for hours that night and went solo on my next day at the airfield.

My final tip for today is this: Write up your logbook when you get into the clubhouse. Don't leave it for when you get home. But, get a diary, (a big A4 page a day jobby) and when you do get home, write after each day's flying, what you did, and more importantly, how you feel about it.

airpolice
 

Thanks airpolice for the advice its appreciated and i will take some time to mull it over and soak it in.

The landing fees and holding may be a bit of a pain thats why Cumbernauld seemed a good option as surely the waiting and fees would be less than say Prestwick?

Perth is a bit too far for me to travel i think:hmm:

The best option may be Prestwick flight school if they can offer a good discount for landing fees and or block booking's don't know how busy they are or if they are hungry for business but i will find out.

Are the flight schools busy is business booming?? who knows maybe some haggling would help :)

And i am going to try and do as much as possible, in the least amount of time, as it will save me money, as less learned skills will need to be gone over ,and i will spend more time at the garage making money:)

"NMIF" said Milo.
 

Here are the five top tips for someone in your frame of mind.

1 Do not pay up front!

2 Avoid, at all costs, any attempt to entice you to pay up front!

3 Resist the temptation of any discount offered for paying up front!

4 Bear in mind that if you pay up front, and the company behind the school should go bust, the school, the planes and instructors may still be there next week, but your money is in the wind!

5 Read through loads of pprune pages for horror stories about folk who paid up front, the Inverness story is a really good read.



p.s. Don't pay up front.

I wonder what the differences are between the East coast and West coast (not in the way rappers view it) but in regards to actual VFR flying/training days available. When picking a school, consideration of driving a little further to an east (or central) coast location may offer more vfr weather flying. It’s pretty apparent that it pisses of rain lot more on the West coast (not that the smarmy, big city, Weegie bastards don’t deserve it) as compared to East and if a trainee was wanting to do an accelerated training schedule this would have to be a consideration.

Very true Piperboy, I lost count of the times I was phoned from Leuchars to be told I should attend when even the !!!!ehawks in Bathgate were walking to work.

After crossing the Forth and seeing brighter skies, I eventually got used to leaving the rain behind by the time I was turning off the motorway after Balado and then having a few hours flying between Montrose, Perth & Pittenweem, which had seemed very unlikely over breakfast.

Yr right Piperboy, I tried it for a few times driving to Prestwick taking precicely 100 minutes one way & watching the weather deteriorate on the way, severely off pissing. After driving for 100 miles I felt, & prob looked, more like a cheeseburger than an hours flying.

There was an interesting post on another thread where it was suggested that most of the rural (non instrument equipped) West coast Scottish airstrips were laid out in a more N/S heading as opposed to the East coast which are predominately in a W/E direction. The reason being that although some have geographic constraints the main consideration is that even though the majority of days the winds are westerly the most VFR flying days are when the wind is from the S S/W.

Any thoughts as to the accuracy of this theory?

pay up front
 

so paying up fronts bad, OK will bear that in mind :) maybe blocks of five?:eek:

I did think of a trip to where the weather is more suitable:)

time
 

The other thing is, i am my own boss, so when theres a good day i can take time off and be at prestwick in under 15 Min's, when i was flying from strathaven it was at least an hour there and then back, plus the prep time, food etc, so 5 hours or half a day off work and only 1 hours flying time.

so def going to have a look at the flight school first, they seem more of a 9 to 5 outfit and this may suit me better:)

When i went to strathaven, the money i spent on travel and work not done whilst away waiting for weather could have helped pay for my PPL(A) now that i think about it, it's prob, my cheapest option :)

Escosse sorry to hijack your thread,

If I may offer a tip regarding training that has worked for me and is extremely cost effective. I would like to give a caveat prior to imparting with my advice, I am not a book worm nor what is considered fully educated, nor could I ever be mistaken as an expert on mechanics or science, in fact throughout my career I have been described as being a “as thick as !!!! in the neck of a bottle” ,” a lump of wid” and as “dumb as a post” however there is one area that has probably trained me more than any other about flying (as much as actually flying the plane and perhaps even more) and this is the plethora of quality, easy to read and graphically simple books available. I am not taking about the ones that are given out or suggested as part of the PPl curriculum ( the “how to pass your PPL ones” or the ones about some old pilot bugger reliving his glory days but ones that really giving meaning to what your flight instructor is teaching you.
The following are some examples:

The Compleat Taildragger (although you may never fly a TD the theories are good to know)

Emergency Maneuver Training by Rich Stowell

Stick and Rudder ( The must know basics)

Pilots Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge by the FAA ( This one is essential reading and it costs a tenner)

The US Dept. of Transportation/ FAA publish many excellent books that cover all aspects of GA from flying, weather, mechanical and systems etc with easy to read and understand explanations with pictures included, 99% of the stuff in their books is applicable regardless of which country you are located in. And all four books above can be purchased for less than a half hour in a 152 with infinitely more training value

I find that reading those books makes me a far better pilot and the icing on the cake is the hobbs meter is not running while you are really learning.

Good advice there Piperboy, And as for education, whoever wrote "The Compleat Taildragger" couldn't spell "Complete" properly, according to the English dictionary. So Mad Jock & the rest of youse thicko's is ok innit?:ok:

Thanks
 

Thanks piperboy, i will look in to those books for sure,

Ive been looking at costs also, at prestwick v others and think it might well be worth traveling further afield. Based on last years prices, on the flying club web site, with 50 hours flying and all other medical/paperwork/books etc
including only 1 landing fee per lesson(no holding fee's are included in this) its coming in at 12K. There are some company's offering full packages based on 45 hour's, for around 7k, some of which you don't need to pay up front. also 5 hours extra may only cost under a £1000:hmm:

I understand that better training, can save your life and is invaluable, but 4-5k saving may be worth a look, and also the extra money could be spent on some advanced technique's with another instructor which would be much more fun.

Has someone got their sums seriously wrong???

They cannot be that far adrift from others in the market.:eek:

Also holding fees???? What are they?:confused:

Well I popped over to PiK Flying Club website. Lot of info, however, relevant bits

45 hours JAA PPL, 200.25 per hour, including instructor, and landing. I calculate that at 9011.25. Books can be bought on e bay, plus the club had a number in their archive from memory.

They state on their site, add about 250.00 for initial costs. Sounds fair.

Beware of people who promise a great deal, it generally never is.

Look, flying, in relative terms is expensive. No getting away from it. If you start by trying to cut corners, looking for cheaper avenues, well, you may never get there. Previous advice, you asked for it, was to consider ALL variations and options. There is an awful lot more than cost to consider.