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-   -   Pick a field (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/501500-pick-field.html)

Gertrude the Wombat 4th December 2012 18:51


While I definitely agree that the priority in any emergency including an engine failure is to fly the aircraft, I don't agree with the premise that a full cause check should not be be done in most circumstances. So for example if the reason the engine failed was because you had the mixture leaned for low cruise, descended and then added a bunch of power causing the engine failure, you are implying it would be better to go ahead and crash rather then perform a 10 second cause check which would instantly restore full power http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/confused.gif
My Mount Doom example - engine lost power, instructor set up glide to a useful piece of water (we were on floats), then performed the cause checks ... and we both simultaneously spotted that the mixture knob was further out than either of us had deliberately put it, problem solved. From beginning to end: maybe ninety seconds. (I think his knee had pulled it out a bit when we hit some turbulence whilst he was turned round talking to my family in the back.)

Pace 4th December 2012 19:30

I would agree with BPF. As BPF stated most engine stops are not instant and the fact that the engine is not running as per normal would mean that most pilots would at first adjust the mixture to see if that improved matters as well as going through the checks BPF identified.

When you talk about a student or low time pilot the last thing they want is a badly running engine.
That itself will fill them with terror and as we know terror means lack of normal brain function!
Ie simple tasks and normal reasoning go out of the window to be replaced by frozen brain syndrome.
Hence it maybe an idea to have a laminated emergency checklist in large bold and clear type which can instruct the frozen pilot in what to do?

Pace

Maoraigh1 4th December 2012 19:43

I was taught BPF's checks from the start. Plus "fuel pump on" if present. While looking for somewhere, I started to do them. Engine reacted to pump on. Changed tanks. Flew home. Twice - Pa28 with one empty tank in US and Jodel 1050 with blocked rear tank finger-filter in Scotland.
PS Keep the engine turning while checking - otherwise you won't notice what is effective.

Pace 4th December 2012 19:54


Plus "fuel pump on"
On some Cessna twins fuel pump on high could actually cause engine failures which was notable in a few crashes in the GoldenEagle.

Fuel tank selectors is another! I know of one Cessna 340 ferried all the way from the USA to India where it was collected by an Indian pilot to move the last 50 miles to its new base, He switched the fuel off by accident and landed in a lake before working out what he had done, the poor aircraft ending up at the bottom of that lake after going all that way to be lost in the last 50 miles.

Pace

Big Pistons Forever 4th December 2012 20:02


Originally Posted by POBJOY (Post 7556174)
What we are talking about here is a non pilot induced failure not something that should be covered by normal safe flying practice.

Since about 80% of engine failures are caused by the pilot, it seems reasonable to see if you can undo what ever you did to cause the the engine to fail. The checks if regularly practiced can be done in 10 secs so if you are above 1000 feet AGL I do not see why they should not be performed after the aircraft is established in the glide attitude and pointed at a landable area. For the EFATO below 1000 feet case I agree you should not be messing with things. However the exact same flow fuel, mixture, mags is also a good shutdown check, so either way it should practiced.

I want to emphasize that my recommended engine failure practice sessions ends at the cause check. I don't think it is necessary to actually fly the PFL, simply practice choosing a landing area and doing the cause check. If you can't manage the 30 seconds this takes on every flight I think you need to reevaluate your flying plans........

Big Pistons Forever 4th December 2012 20:11


Originally Posted by Pace (Post 7556310)
On some Cessna twins fuel pump on high could actually cause engine failures which was notable in a few crashes in the GoldenEagle.

There has been a Cessna service bulletin to fix this issue available for the last 20 years. Anybody who has not done the mod is IMO very foolish.

The tip tank twin Cessnas have a stupidly complex fuel system, The 340 I sometimes fly has 5 separate tanks with 3 fuel selectors 5 electrical boost pumps and 9 fuel drains. Plus there are all sorts of operational gotchas. A high level of system knowledge is an absolute must if you are flying these aircraft.

sevenstrokeroll 4th December 2012 20:40

really you should ALWAYS be looking for a field
 
no matter what you fly, where you fly, when you fly...you should be looking for a place to land...just in case.

and if you are on instruments....have a working knowledge of what is nearby, be able to make at least a ''cloud break'' aproach to anyplace within range of a VOR...or enter a holding pattern that you make up on the spot in an area clear of innocents and giving you a chance.

Even in big jetere have been good reasons to just SET DOWN NOW to save everyone on board.

I know one outfit that routinely landed sabreliners on two lane highways.

use your imagination...know the ''glide'' line (see ''stick and rudder)...and know the place below the glide line in the window that you can make.

while flying the line in the DC9 my pals and I would always point out places to land...never needed em...but its fun and keeps your mind sharp.

mary meagher 4th December 2012 21:35

Seven Stroke Roll has excellent advice, always be looking for a field! Instructors probably have good ones spotted in their habitual cruising areas. The Tug pilot before being turned loose to pull up gliders is shown suitable fields near the launchpoint. The unfortunate Australian who pulled the chute and plonked it into a nice big paddock, had to make his decision above 2,000. Wait until you are too low for the chute to deploy and your goose is properly cooked. And above 2,000' it is difficult to see the ditches.

Glider pilots must do field selection as a vital part of training before going X-country. In fact it is recommended that they study fields when driving the car round the countryside. The glider is much much easier to manage when landing in a field; when getting low, you have chosen a suitable area by 2,000', when getting lower you have chosen your field - by 1,500', and are still groveling at 800' on the downwind leg hoping to climb away. Which adds up to a lot of time lingering in the air, assessing the wind direction and strength; discovering problems with the chosen field (horses? flooding? rocks?) that may not have been noticed before....and giving you a chance to choose a better field nearby.

We also train to assess the height above the ground without reference to the altimeter; if the trees are rising up around you and the cows getting bigger, etc.

The glider is also designed to land in a field, even a brown muddy field in November....without damage or injury. They seldom turn over in a field landing. Power aircraft often do. Field landings in power aircraft more often cause injury and damage; the main thing is to arrive in control, at the slowest sensible speed, even landing on a house or in trees you can walk away from an engine failure if the approach has been properly controlled.

I think that if you have the money, a Cirrus would ease your mind. Especially in the US, where if you kill or injure yourself or a passenger, the lawyers will be queueing up. Not many power pilots have cross country gliding in their logbooks, it could make them safer pilots altogether.

FlyingOfficerKite 5th December 2012 11:38

I was taught, in my days as a glider pilot, the 'SAW SHOWS' mnemonic.

Size
Animals
Wires

Surface
Height (sufficient to reach the field and execute an approach)
Obstacles (trees, fences, hay bales and the like)
Wind
Slope

One aspect of PFLs which tends not to be emphasized is the likelihood of a forced landing being made from a height less than the standard 2500'.

Transitting a low level route, for example, may only allow time for a straight in approach or, maybe, base and finals.

The gliding technique of flying from field to field may not be looked upon as being necessary in an SEP, but an assessment of the general area towards which you would head is definately required - that should take care of a few of the SAW SHOWS issues without too much additional thought leaving you to concentrate on final field selection and for planning and executing a succesful approach.

FOK :)


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