Hitting the plateau
 

not literally !
I'm working on my PPL, have about 15 hours at the moment.
Seem to have hit a bit of a plateau, learningwise in the circuit.

Normally I can see the progress I've made form one lesson to the next but the last couple of lessons , I don't see any major improvement.

My instructor seems to think I'm doing fine ( funnily enough I believe him a lot more when he's telling me what I'm doing wrong, than when he's telling me I'm doing well!)

I guess this happens to everyone, i just wondered if anyone has any magic words of wisdom?

There's just sooo much to do in such a short space of time. If i get one thing right then I seem to forget about something else:{

Trust your instructor !

Odds are he's looking for consistency at this point. That can take a little while to build up.


G

yep I know. I guess ;)

My landings are a touch on the "firm" side at the moment :*

I think i'm coming back down to Earth ( no pun intended) from the fact that personally I've achieved so much up until this point.

A year ago I was so scared of turbulence that I needed therapy to get on an airplane ( long story, not that interesting). Now I'm flying one!

Now I'm just bashing out those circuits (literally with my landings!)

Local

Landings are all about confidence! You think firm then thats what you will expect and get!
Its strange but even us old hands have a spate of absolute greasers where you hardly feel the aircraft touch!
Then out of the blue they go! Still good landings but not quite the greasers!
What causes that?
It can be the tiniest hesitation from one landing which did not come up to what you wanted and then the rest do not quite come up to what you want for a while.
Then you come back to a phase of greasers again.
In your case as a Student its quite normal the only difference being that your variations are more pronounced than us more experienced guys.
Its that grain of confidence no more no less.
Relax and enjoy it and you will soon move through that phase to advancing again!
The learning graph is always up but expect dips and plateaus in that increasing graph.

Pace

The time, is what you define, you're not being rushed - don't rush yourself. 45 hours is a small fraction of the time it takes to learn to fly a plane through its reasonable envelope of capability and conditions. 45 hours seems to be the minimum the authorities place, but believe me, that at 46 hours and a wet ink PPL, you're still at the beginning of learning - you're simply safe, and compliant with the standards for skill.

The first part of the learning curve is steep, then you reach your plateau. That's when familiarity make's it look like you're not learning so fast. You're still learning - after 36 years of flying, I am....

DAR , I have no illusions about completing my PPL in 45 hours that's for sure.

I'll get it when (or if) I get it.
It is the circuit I was referring to , so much to do. I'm barely comfortably established in the climbout before it sems I'm doing my landing checks.

I'm working on the relaxing ( is that an oxymoron?) I seem to anticpate the touchdown by tensing my arms and screwing up my face! Not the best approach I know.

I did manage one reasonable landing last time.Nothing more scary than looking over and seeing your instructors hands are no where near the controls

That should be the most reassuring sign of all as it means the instructor is happy with the way the approach is looking and with you???
RELAX RELAX RELAX and do some positive talking to yourself " I am in control not the aircraft and I am going to really enjoy this".

Pace

Hello Local.... What you are describing is completely normal... I assume you haven't solo'ed yet and if so this phase does need you to take a lot on board.... be patient; trust your instructor and keep it up... things will suddenly start to fall into place.

I remember this only too well (15 years ago now) and felt exactly very similar to the way you describe (no t'interweb so no Pprune help in those days - lol)

Hang on in there and very best wishes... Mike

First, its perfectly normal.

Second, it takes time for things to become automatic. You can help yourself by making absolutely certain you know all the checks, speeds, calls etc off pat, keep rehearsing them in your mind.

Third, and for what its worth, i did my multi rating with a few thousand hours in hand on single engine aircraft. I was totally comfortable in the circuit, or so i thought. The first couple of sessions in the twin took be right back to my initial ppl. The speeds were higher and it was easy to get behind the aircraft. Inexcusably i hadnt learnt the drills and power settings so not only was i struggling with the extra engine but also a host of new procedures. I put that right and everything else quickly fell into place.

So dont worry it will come be diligent and be patient.

Haha,

A long time ago, with very little tail wheel time, I asked a very experienced pilot I knew, with a PA-18, if I could fly a few circuits with him, to improve my tailwheel skills. "Sure" he said, "let's go". I asked if he wanted me in the front seat, or back. He thought for a moment, and said the front, so in I got.

After a I flew few adequate circuits, I shut down, and we got out. It was then that I noticed that he had no controls in the back!

Yes.
Yes, I remember circuits being like that - how on earth do you get everything done in five minutes?

Now the same five minutes is plenty long enough to chat to passengers, show them the sights etc.

One of my mates is sometimes a nervous passenger. Took him flying in Oz, with an instructor because it wasn't worth getting an Oz licence whilst on a short holiday.

So I explained: "What you need to do is look at the instructor's hands. If they're in his lap, then there isn't a problem and you're perfectly safe; if they're on the controls then there isn't a problem and you're perfectly safe."

He did understand!

well thanks for the encouragment

just heard from my instructor so I'm going to head down shortly and throw the plane round the circuit for an hour or so!

let's see how many landings I can actually get in this time.

Last lesson had three go arounds, One for a medevac chopper. One because i was practically over the threshold and still didn't have my landing clearance (sod's law as soon as I pushed the throttle in, ATC remembered about me) and one dodgy approach.

It was busy that day, at one point I was #4 for the runway and I don't think I flew more than one "standard" circuit, all the others I had to extend various legs or switch runways or both

I'll let you know how it goes

All those go-arounds add to the experience. As a recently qualified PPL I fully understand your frustrations. One thing I did was to suggest to my instructor that we go off and do some general handling - steep turns , introduction to stalls etc and then come back to the airfield for a circuit or two. Remember, as others have said, it is not a race and any time in the air is useful, even if you do not think you have learned anything from that particular lesson. Subconciously you have. Took me nearly eighty hours toget to my skills test but did I care? Not one bit. I enjoyed the experience as much as I do now that I have my licence. Happy landings.

My instructor who shall be nameless (Jerry Bream) always insisted on me taking a boiled sweet from him while I was in the middle of the most complicated manoeuvres - like on finals etc. How could I take, unwrap and put in my mouth a sweet when my hands and legs were doing fifty to the dozen? What a marvellous man.:D
By the way, my lovely wife just couldn't crack landing so the instructors wisely passed over that and finished the rest of the techniques, she finally went solo after about 75 hours by which time she had covered nearly everything else. If you get stuck with one thing it's often wise to put it to one side and return at a later stage - methinks.

Pilot Dar

There used to be an old joke about a wartime instructor who taught on and old bi plane.
His trademark before sending a pilot solo was to remove the rear stick and on final throw it out telling his student to follow everything he had been shown and land the plane.
One student knowing about this smuggled a spare stick into the aircraft.
The instructor did the same routine throwing out his control stick with the usual comment of following everything he had been shown.
"OK Sir said the student and threw the spare stick he had concealed out of the aircraft. :ok:
I believe the instructor bailed out leaving an amused student who landed

Pace

It is not unusual to hit a plateau presolo when you get to the circuit. One of the causes is insufficient time spent on the fundamental flying skills of holding the rich attitude for the desired flight condition and/or insufficient emphasis on trimming the aircraft. Too many instructors rush their students to the circuit and then spend many frustrating hours making no progress, The circuit is not the place to learn ex 5-9.

One strategy I have used successfully is instead of starting a lesson right into the circuit,I go to the practice area and practice flying a circuit at altitude ( ie the runway is North at 2000 feet AGL and the circuit is at 3000 feet). This lets you practice the rhythm of the circuit without the pressure of the runway looming in the windshield. Concentrate on flying "finals" on speed with a stable pitch attitude and in trim. Now when you go back to the circuit you will be warmed up and ready to go :ok:. It is also a good exercise as it makes you practice a go around.

I'm starting to build up some reasonable experience now as an instructor; as a CRI rather than FI only dealing with people who already hold some form of pilots licence.

I've come to realise that a lot of pilots *think* they should be going into the circuit as soon as possible, but lack the skill and familiarity with the aeroplane to use that effectively.

So, moving into the circuit early can be a retrograde step and serve to mess up a pilots confidence and skill in the aeroplane,rather than improve it.

That, hopefully, does not apply to the OP, but it has certainly applied to several pilots I've taught.

G

G

As long as its not a busy airfield where you will annoy the sh+t out of other pilots the instructor could start with wide circuits and long final to give the student the thinking space they need.
As they get used to that tighten the circuits up!
A longer final will also allow the student time to stabilise the approach as well as his mind !

Pace

Nah pace everything and I mean everything should be done away from the circuit until you only need to do a bit of RT work, situational awarness and the waggling the peddles and controls at the bottom for landing.

I completely agree with BPF that going into the circuit before the student has cracked the preceding lessons just causes the whole thing to become a torture for both student and instructor.

Giving wide circuits etc is just compensating to the fact the student is struggling with S&L etc. The circuit is not the place to be teaching and working on S&L and trimming.

MJ

I am not and instructor so bow to the superior knowledge of you and BPF : ) plus tend to agree keep the buggers away from
The circuit and banish them to designated disused airfields

Pace

You don't even need a disused or even get below 1000ft.

You just pick a field/feature as an aiming point and fly a circuit round that starting at 2000agl and going around at 1000ft agl.

Do a couple and then move somewhere else if you have a load of moaning locals.

Exactly what I've been doing lately, the results have been good - much better than trying to do this in the circuit.

G

Hey guys, can I just butt in to say "what a pleasant read this thread is".
All positive help to the new pilot. Wish more threads were like this.
Keep it up.

Don't worry it wont last. ;)

MJ - you don't know what you are talking about, utter tosh. ;);)

I believe there is a rocky knoll that is a similar shape to an airfield (although you couldn't land on it) not far from our training area (outside CAS) that is away from moaners so a number of instructors use it.

It has been known for multiple students to be "in the circuit" at the same time, but somehow calls of safetycom would still be wrong...

Hitting the plateau
 

Well thanks for all the helpful comments
I don't think anyone is suggesting anything that my instructor hasn't or isn't trying!

As promised I'll let you know how yesterday went

Well it was challenging with a 8 gusting 12 knot crosswind
I think my circuits are improving , the climb out and crosswind and most of the downwind is ok

Landings are still a bit on the firm side but I managed an awesome side slip landing with no instructor assistance at all

Im stuck in a meeting at the moment but I will reply more fully later

Thanks guys

A quick tip, in case you haven't been given this already by your instructor...

I was advised to practice my downwind checks whilst driving. Disclaimer - Obviously use your common sense about where you choose to practice this, especially at first! Once I got the hang of going through the checks and driving at the same time, I then tried to envisage where I needed to look to check an instrument and moved a hand in the general direction of where, say, the flaps would be. Finally, I then did the same with the radio playing quietly in the background, to get used to 'flying', performing my checks, and having to deal with background noise too. For me personally, it really helped. :ok:

There is a widely held fallacy that the only "good" landings are the ones where you are hardly feel the wheels touch. There are plenty of instances (eg contaminated runways, strong/gusty crosswinds, short fields) where a landing "a bit on the firm side" should in fact be the desired result.

For someone just learning to fly do not concern your self with firm touchdowns, and obviously I don't mean when the airplane comes crashing out of the sky, I mean the one where there is a distinct bump as the wheels touch.

What you should be IMO grading your landing on is the following.

1) Did I fly a nice stable approach

2) Was the touchdown at the correct attitude to get a proper main wheel first touch down. You should give yourself a big smack up side the head if the aircraft touches on all 3 wheels at the same time or worse nosewheel first :uhoh:

3) Was the aircraft straight when it touched. If it gave a little lurch to one side when the mains touched it was not straight.

4) Was the touchdown on the centre line and near the chosen touchdown spot

As an instructor I would much rather see a good solid stable approach with the flare commenced at the right spot and the nose rotated to the correct touchdown attitude which is held steady until the wheels touch. This will result in the aircraft likely dropping the last couple of inches for a safe firm landing.

What I do not want to see is a pumping of the wheel as the student tries to feel for the ground trying for the hero pilot "grease job" landing

Hitting the plateau
 

I love flying - my instructor knows I don't drive - now do you see what the poor guy is up against ;-)

Bpf - some good points to think about , but one of my landings near knocked my headset off :)
So still a bit firm for anyone's liking :)

Localflighttest

I have a feeling that in your landings you are allowing yourself to be more if a passenger than being in control of the aircraft!
You are getting near the ground wound up and hoping it will all work out ok?rather than controlling the aircraft and making it do what you want!
It is quite normal to be apprehensive and regard the landing as something that your glad when it's over rather than enjoying the experience of landing!
Get your instructor to take you to a long airfield !
Fly the aircraft up the runway maybe at 6 feet in the landing configuration but don't land!
When you are comfortable being near the ground just reduce the power you need to fly level and pitch the nose a tad!
Then watch how easy it is for the aircraft to sink onto the runway and land!
As you feel it sinking try and stop it by adding more back pressure until
You feel the tires touch,
A great exercise for being near the ground and for seeing how easy it really is !
It is a confidence thing no more no less and we have all been there at one time or another,
Most of all change your mindset and enjoy that part don't dread it !

Pace

Pace ,
I really like that idea, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I will admit that the runway thing scares me in that it is pretty much surrounded by water and not much room for error ( busy-ish airspace too)

I think I am improving (my instructor says I am)but I don't think the crosswind helped much last night. Although the biggest improvement from my point of view is I did actually feel the stuff that the instructor was pointing out to me.

I'm not sure how to describe what I mean but it was really the first time that I'd "felt" the plane sink or "felt" the crosswind push me to the side.
I guess the next phase is working on what do do when I feel those things.

It'll come slowly I'm sure . I just really appreciate the advice. I think I'm quite a high maintenance student in that I need constant reassurance that I'm doing OK;)

Pace – I wanted to thank you for your detailed post and take the time to answer your questions as I really appreciate what you are trying to say
1) Did I fly a nice stable approach – I’ve quickly come to realize that crappy approaches make crappy landings. If I maintain circuit height all the way in my downwind, then usually my approaches are fairly OK. I can certainly judge if I’m too high or low and take appropriate action. I’m usually trimmed OK for the correct speed as well

2) Was the touchdown at the correct attitude to get a proper main wheel first touch down. You should give yourself a big smack up side the head if the aircraft touches on all 3 wheels at the same time or worse nosewheel first - I’ve never done nosewheel first – sometimes my landings are a bit flat though , last time I may have overcompensated

3) Was the aircraft straight when it touched. If it gave a little lurch to one side when the mains touched it was not straight. – usually OK here – managed a good crosswind , one wheel then the other last night

4) Was the touchdown on the centre line and near the chosen touchdown spot – I’m working on the centre line thing. I don’t seem to be able to pick a good visual clue to line us up straight – instructor says use rivet line , but when he showed me as a demo , it didn’t seem to line up for me. I’m always down in the first third of the runway
Anyways thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts I appreciate them all

Localflighteast

Firstly some of the comments above were from BPF not me : )
BPF knows what he is talking about so take his advice.
But really do relax ; ) we all have glitches we have all experienced what you have at your stage.
Above all this is a forum! We do not know you or how you fly! Only your instructor knows that so talk to him! He really actually sounds pleased with your progress so maybe you are being hard on yourself ?
Above all it costs money ! Your money! So enjoy it

Pace

OP, you appear to have all the drive and enthusiasm you need to go all the way with this flying thing, all that is required is a touch of patience. Some aspects of flying can only be learned by repetition, and that takes time. You have plateaued because this is a stage in your flying where you simply need time in the cockpit for everything your instructor has taught you so far to come together.

Trust all the other PPRUNERS and I when we say just relax and enjoy your flying, and it will come in good time.

Right, so another lesson booked for Saturday. I think i'm just going to go with the flow and see what happens. Just concentrate on flying the plane and see how I go.

Going to stop obsessing over this now, just feeding my lack of confidence.
I will keep you informed of my progress though :)

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to pass on their words of wisdom

Pace makes a good point.
Fly in front of your aircraft, never let it get ahead of you.

I know exactly what you are going through as I went through it myself earlier in the year. Good news is I have two photographs on my wall, one of me just having done my first solo and the other passing my skills test so I am now a holder of a new PPL.

Like you I put a lot of pressure on myself to get it right when hour after hour of circuits went by without success never seemingly able to repeat the good parts of the previous circuit.

What I learnt which may be of use....
1. Trust the instructor, they have done this so many times before
2. Check your seat height, a very small adjustment upwards in my case did help although didn't solve the problem.
3. Go to another airfield. This helped me enormously, my first solo was not done at my home airfield but another a short flight away. This seemed to work because it was an easier runway to land on (centrally aligned, no hump in the middle) but I think more importantly no negative memories of failed attempts.

What I did also learn was through the 'failed' circuits even though I wasn't getting the landings I needed/wanted I was getting airmanship, learning how to deal with other flyers in the circuit not following local procedures, how to recover when I'd got myself into difficulties etc.

I do feel whilst I wouldn't have chosen that path it made me a better pilot overall and I still treat landings with the full respect they deserve.

Perhaps 2 points:

Try to fly more often than once a week (if not doing so already). If flying just once a week, a lot of currency is being constantly lost. If you have just 1 day a week free, try doing 1 flight in the morning and 1 in the afternoon.

On landings, as BPF says, a firm landing is fine and is indeed more or less necessary if landing on a short-ish runway or in any sort of crosswind. IMHO the most important thing is to fly a good approach trajectory, so work hard on maintaining the "picture in the window" despite turbulence, wind shear, and watch the airspeed at the same time, all the way down.

Just to add peter is not an instructor either.


Sod the airspeed keep the picture. Once you get past the learning how to molest the aircraft bit please do listen to peter on how to get from A to B.