MJ

I am not and instructor so bow to the superior knowledge of you and BPF : ) plus tend to agree keep the buggers away from
The circuit and banish them to designated disused airfields

Pace

You don't even need a disused or even get below 1000ft.

You just pick a field/feature as an aiming point and fly a circuit round that starting at 2000agl and going around at 1000ft agl.

Do a couple and then move somewhere else if you have a load of moaning locals.

Exactly what I've been doing lately, the results have been good - much better than trying to do this in the circuit.

G

Hey guys, can I just butt in to say "what a pleasant read this thread is".
All positive help to the new pilot. Wish more threads were like this.
Keep it up.

Don't worry it wont last. ;)

MJ - you don't know what you are talking about, utter tosh. ;);)

I believe there is a rocky knoll that is a similar shape to an airfield (although you couldn't land on it) not far from our training area (outside CAS) that is away from moaners so a number of instructors use it.

It has been known for multiple students to be "in the circuit" at the same time, but somehow calls of safetycom would still be wrong...

Hitting the plateau
 

Well thanks for all the helpful comments
I don't think anyone is suggesting anything that my instructor hasn't or isn't trying!

As promised I'll let you know how yesterday went

Well it was challenging with a 8 gusting 12 knot crosswind
I think my circuits are improving , the climb out and crosswind and most of the downwind is ok

Landings are still a bit on the firm side but I managed an awesome side slip landing with no instructor assistance at all

Im stuck in a meeting at the moment but I will reply more fully later

Thanks guys

A quick tip, in case you haven't been given this already by your instructor...

I was advised to practice my downwind checks whilst driving. Disclaimer - Obviously use your common sense about where you choose to practice this, especially at first! Once I got the hang of going through the checks and driving at the same time, I then tried to envisage where I needed to look to check an instrument and moved a hand in the general direction of where, say, the flaps would be. Finally, I then did the same with the radio playing quietly in the background, to get used to 'flying', performing my checks, and having to deal with background noise too. For me personally, it really helped. :ok:

There is a widely held fallacy that the only "good" landings are the ones where you are hardly feel the wheels touch. There are plenty of instances (eg contaminated runways, strong/gusty crosswinds, short fields) where a landing "a bit on the firm side" should in fact be the desired result.

For someone just learning to fly do not concern your self with firm touchdowns, and obviously I don't mean when the airplane comes crashing out of the sky, I mean the one where there is a distinct bump as the wheels touch.

What you should be IMO grading your landing on is the following.

1) Did I fly a nice stable approach

2) Was the touchdown at the correct attitude to get a proper main wheel first touch down. You should give yourself a big smack up side the head if the aircraft touches on all 3 wheels at the same time or worse nosewheel first :uhoh:

3) Was the aircraft straight when it touched. If it gave a little lurch to one side when the mains touched it was not straight.

4) Was the touchdown on the centre line and near the chosen touchdown spot

As an instructor I would much rather see a good solid stable approach with the flare commenced at the right spot and the nose rotated to the correct touchdown attitude which is held steady until the wheels touch. This will result in the aircraft likely dropping the last couple of inches for a safe firm landing.

What I do not want to see is a pumping of the wheel as the student tries to feel for the ground trying for the hero pilot "grease job" landing

Hitting the plateau
 

I love flying - my instructor knows I don't drive - now do you see what the poor guy is up against ;-)

Bpf - some good points to think about , but one of my landings near knocked my headset off :)
So still a bit firm for anyone's liking :)

Localflighttest

I have a feeling that in your landings you are allowing yourself to be more if a passenger than being in control of the aircraft!
You are getting near the ground wound up and hoping it will all work out ok?rather than controlling the aircraft and making it do what you want!
It is quite normal to be apprehensive and regard the landing as something that your glad when it's over rather than enjoying the experience of landing!
Get your instructor to take you to a long airfield !
Fly the aircraft up the runway maybe at 6 feet in the landing configuration but don't land!
When you are comfortable being near the ground just reduce the power you need to fly level and pitch the nose a tad!
Then watch how easy it is for the aircraft to sink onto the runway and land!
As you feel it sinking try and stop it by adding more back pressure until
You feel the tires touch,
A great exercise for being near the ground and for seeing how easy it really is !
It is a confidence thing no more no less and we have all been there at one time or another,
Most of all change your mindset and enjoy that part don't dread it !

Pace

Pace ,
I really like that idea, I think you've hit the nail on the head. I will admit that the runway thing scares me in that it is pretty much surrounded by water and not much room for error ( busy-ish airspace too)

I think I am improving (my instructor says I am)but I don't think the crosswind helped much last night. Although the biggest improvement from my point of view is I did actually feel the stuff that the instructor was pointing out to me.

I'm not sure how to describe what I mean but it was really the first time that I'd "felt" the plane sink or "felt" the crosswind push me to the side.
I guess the next phase is working on what do do when I feel those things.

It'll come slowly I'm sure . I just really appreciate the advice. I think I'm quite a high maintenance student in that I need constant reassurance that I'm doing OK;)

Pace – I wanted to thank you for your detailed post and take the time to answer your questions as I really appreciate what you are trying to say
1) Did I fly a nice stable approach – I’ve quickly come to realize that crappy approaches make crappy landings. If I maintain circuit height all the way in my downwind, then usually my approaches are fairly OK. I can certainly judge if I’m too high or low and take appropriate action. I’m usually trimmed OK for the correct speed as well

2) Was the touchdown at the correct attitude to get a proper main wheel first touch down. You should give yourself a big smack up side the head if the aircraft touches on all 3 wheels at the same time or worse nosewheel first - I’ve never done nosewheel first – sometimes my landings are a bit flat though , last time I may have overcompensated

3) Was the aircraft straight when it touched. If it gave a little lurch to one side when the mains touched it was not straight. – usually OK here – managed a good crosswind , one wheel then the other last night

4) Was the touchdown on the centre line and near the chosen touchdown spot – I’m working on the centre line thing. I don’t seem to be able to pick a good visual clue to line us up straight – instructor says use rivet line , but when he showed me as a demo , it didn’t seem to line up for me. I’m always down in the first third of the runway
Anyways thank you for taking the time to post your thoughts I appreciate them all

Localflighteast

Firstly some of the comments above were from BPF not me : )
BPF knows what he is talking about so take his advice.
But really do relax ; ) we all have glitches we have all experienced what you have at your stage.
Above all this is a forum! We do not know you or how you fly! Only your instructor knows that so talk to him! He really actually sounds pleased with your progress so maybe you are being hard on yourself ?
Above all it costs money ! Your money! So enjoy it

Pace

OP, you appear to have all the drive and enthusiasm you need to go all the way with this flying thing, all that is required is a touch of patience. Some aspects of flying can only be learned by repetition, and that takes time. You have plateaued because this is a stage in your flying where you simply need time in the cockpit for everything your instructor has taught you so far to come together.

Trust all the other PPRUNERS and I when we say just relax and enjoy your flying, and it will come in good time.

Right, so another lesson booked for Saturday. I think i'm just going to go with the flow and see what happens. Just concentrate on flying the plane and see how I go.

Going to stop obsessing over this now, just feeding my lack of confidence.
I will keep you informed of my progress though :)

Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to pass on their words of wisdom

Pace makes a good point.
Fly in front of your aircraft, never let it get ahead of you.

I know exactly what you are going through as I went through it myself earlier in the year. Good news is I have two photographs on my wall, one of me just having done my first solo and the other passing my skills test so I am now a holder of a new PPL.

Like you I put a lot of pressure on myself to get it right when hour after hour of circuits went by without success never seemingly able to repeat the good parts of the previous circuit.

What I learnt which may be of use....
1. Trust the instructor, they have done this so many times before
2. Check your seat height, a very small adjustment upwards in my case did help although didn't solve the problem.
3. Go to another airfield. This helped me enormously, my first solo was not done at my home airfield but another a short flight away. This seemed to work because it was an easier runway to land on (centrally aligned, no hump in the middle) but I think more importantly no negative memories of failed attempts.

What I did also learn was through the 'failed' circuits even though I wasn't getting the landings I needed/wanted I was getting airmanship, learning how to deal with other flyers in the circuit not following local procedures, how to recover when I'd got myself into difficulties etc.

I do feel whilst I wouldn't have chosen that path it made me a better pilot overall and I still treat landings with the full respect they deserve.

Perhaps 2 points:

Try to fly more often than once a week (if not doing so already). If flying just once a week, a lot of currency is being constantly lost. If you have just 1 day a week free, try doing 1 flight in the morning and 1 in the afternoon.

On landings, as BPF says, a firm landing is fine and is indeed more or less necessary if landing on a short-ish runway or in any sort of crosswind. IMHO the most important thing is to fly a good approach trajectory, so work hard on maintaining the "picture in the window" despite turbulence, wind shear, and watch the airspeed at the same time, all the way down.

Just to add peter is not an instructor either.


Sod the airspeed keep the picture. Once you get past the learning how to molest the aircraft bit please do listen to peter on how to get from A to B.