Lights during engine start
 

With regards to light piston aircraft, when starting engine, it is stated the avionics / radio should be off.

What about lights? Should they be off too?
As far as I know, lights (eg. anti collision) are not "sensitive" electrical components, so can be left on during engine start.

Industry standard for virtually all commercial operators is nav lights on when electrical power is applied (ie the master switch is turned on) and beacon on before starting.......and that is what my employer mandates when I fly the companies large T prop airliner....so that is what I teach my light aircraft students.

The Beacon on for start is fantastic but even more important than that is the "Prop Clear" call IMO. As for Nav lights on during the day I don't really see that as necessary as the beacon lets people know that the master is on. One can't really discern a Nav light that is on or off in bright day light anyways, better off to save em for the night or poor vis conditions.

PS. This is for light A/C operations not Commercial Ops.

Normally in the singles I fly on Private Ops I have the beacon on and everything else not absolutely necessary to safely start the engine turned off to lessen the load on the battery when I turn the key. But in the first instance I recommend reading the POH and Flight Manual to see what the manufacturer recommends.

The reason that radios and avionics are turned off is to protect them from the high voltage back emf that appears when first connecting a DC motor (the starter) Fleming's right hand rule I believe. Most modern avionics have internal protection but some older equipment does not. Bulbs are not susceptible to such transients. The same reason that many car starter switches disconnect the radio when operating the starter.

But even if the modern avionics are protected, why risk it? Leave them off, and you can't be proven wrong about how good the avionics internal protection is. (The only time this should be a problem is if your airport requires a call for engine start, but that's pretty rare).

I agree about the lights.

G

Not that rare at major controlled airports, including Rotterdam, where I fly from. It serves mostly as a checkpoint for ATC that your flight plan is in the system.

But it's no problem whatsoever wrt. avionics.

- Master on
- Avionics on
- Listen to ATIS
- Request startup
- Avionics off
- Alternator on
- Strobes on; fuel pump on
- Start engine; post-start engine checks
- Avionics on
- Request taxi

ATC, at least over here, expects you to have your radios off at the moment you're starting the engine. They know you'll get back to them to request taxi, and if they have anything to add, they'll do it then.

The only "issue" that you might have is if you have a fancy nav/com/gps box such as a GNS430 which requires a boot procedure and is only ready to transmit, or change frequencies, after 10 seconds of boot process and four button presses. For that reason I always request startup using the "old" instant-on radio that's installed as COM2.

What type of aircraft do you fly that wants the alternator on when the engine is not running?
It won't be generating much electricity at that point, I understand Piper actually issued a notice changing their start procedure to start with the alternator off.

For light aircraft, my opinion is a very good lookout and a loud 'Clear prop' call

Well, this is the order of the club-issued checklist and coincides with the flow of things through the cockpit. And frankly, it doesn't matter all that much whether the alternator is on during engine start or not. Although if it's cold or the battery is almost flat, I'm leaving everything off (including the strobes) until the engine is running.

Not quite. The 430 will transmit/receive on the last selected frequency immediately after switch on and before completing the self test sequence.

True. So you need to anticipate whatever frequency you need to ask taxi permission on, and activate that before you switch the avionics off.

Can be done but requires a bit of forethought and is error-prone (as the frequency is usually not displayed at that time). For a savings of 10-15 seconds...

That does soooo wind me up....have a look next time you are at Schipol or LHR!

Strobe should be turned on entering the runway

If the engine is about to be started, is running or in the process of running down the beacon should be on. PA28 to A380 it will still be the same.

I agree, but what about aircraft not fitted with a beacon, i.e. PA38?

I can't say I've ever taken a light aeroplane into either - how often do you do that?

I have been into other nearly-as-busy heavy-metal airports, but generally the ground environment is controlled enough that other methods are used to stop people walking into stuff (marshallers, call for start, mandatory airside training, very tight airside access control).

But we are talking about light GA here. If I start up at Popham I'm in a different environment to, say, Southampton. I sort of assumed that this thread was about the Pophams of this world?

G

UV, It's a cold and damp winter morning. The aircraft hasn't flown in five days and is stored outside. The battery isn't 100%, the oil is thick and the starter old. Also the apron is completely empty.

What do you do?

1. Turn on all the lights, strobes and everything during a thorough walkaround, and turn on every possible electricity consumer while chatting with ATC about your startup clearance, departure route, squawk and the weather. Likewise during the start of the engine.

2. Only turn on the essential lights, check them quickly then shut off before doing the rest of the walkround. To request startup you only turn on the avionics that you need (one radio) and while starting, all other electricity consumers, including alternator field, avionics and lights are kept off.

1. might be the legally correct answer, but may also result in you not flying today because you drained the battery. So I choose 2.

Heck, if I really suspect a tricky situation wrt. the battery, I'm not going to check my lights during the walkaround (I can see most of them from the cockpit anyway) and will start the engine without requesting startup first. You will feel a bit silly asking for startup permission when the engine is already running but that will wear off after a while. And ATC knows how the game is played anyway.

On our club a/c if it has a beacon it has to be on, if it only has strobes they have to be off. So that doesn't help at all really does it.

At my place:

Rotating beacon - ON whenever engine is running or start is imminent
Navigation lights - ON when deemed necessary or legally required, low vis and night mostly.
Strobe lights - ON when entering active runway.

Then we've got some BE76 that doesn't have any rotating beacons, so we have to use or strobe lights as anti-collision. Acceptable under FAR Part 91, but you feel a bit silly at night flashing everyone else in their face.

Wiring
 

This is where the handheld VHF COM come into play, in my opinion. Get the ATIS and start-up clearance using the handheld, saving your limited ship's battery capacity for the start-up. On most small planes, you need to switch on the master just to activate one radio set, and that will usually start the power draining turn indicator right away.

Regarding lights, planes are not only equipped differently, but also wired differently. One some the ACL - anticollision light - (usually on the tail fin) is a non-strobe light and can be turned on seperately from the wing strobes. This is useful as the non-strobe ACL can be turned on just before engine start, and strobe light turned on while entering the runway. The big guys do it that way. But on many small planes with strobe lights there is only one ACL switch, so everyone is "flashed" once the compulsory light is on; people by the hangar, the fuel station and on the run-up ramp. Annoying especially at night.

Backpacker...you clearly state that you put the strobes on before start and leave them on for taxi. See you own checklist above.
This is what I and many others strongly object to!
Good airmanship says to put them on when entering the runway...regardless of whether you are at Heathrow or Popham!
UV

Depends on what you call strobes, and what you call beacon.

What I've got is a relatively low powered strobe that sits on top of the fuselage, where normally you would expect a beacon. It's not bright enough to blind people in daylight and the plane is never flown at night. I don't have a separate beacon.

As huv pointed out in #20, some aircraft - such as our PA28 - have the strobes and beacon wired to the same switch so it's all or nothing as far as the beacon is concerned. I rather expected an ATPL holder to know that sort of thing!

Not compulsory! Well at least not in the UK on a light aircraft. Again good airmanship might say leave it off if it causes problems.

If that comment was aimed at me how on earth would you expect me to know about such as idiosyncrasy in your particular aircraft?? My own PA 28 did not have such a thing.

The PA28's we have at my old training feild have two different switches, on one aircraft there is a single strobe/beacon, the other has a split switch both are Archer II's. We have different procedures for both

Beacon on for startup, strobes on for the run up. which is normally done near to the hold point for each runway. In the place i'm flying from now its the same thing, except the run up area is further from the Hold points.

I would say stobes on near the apron would be annoying in twilight/night.

I had an instructor who would turnthe beacon off in the taxi because he hated the noise in the headset!!!! go figure. I love uncontrolled airfeilds :-)

Cold Start Up Procedure - Winter
 

After a humbling altercation with a very experienced mechanic about what to expect from an aircraft battery during winter, I've decided to apply the following starting procedure on a light single (with a 60 Amps / 12 V Battery):

1. Complete Exterior Check with Master Switch Off, Magnetos Off, Disconnect GPS, All Electrical Equipment Off.
2. Pull Aircraft Outside
3. Manually Turn Propellor 6 rotations in the normal rotation direction
(i.e. to the right/clockwise from the pilot seat's point of view, to the left/counterclockwise when standing in front of the aircraft)
4. Master Switch On - check voltage - if above +11.0 V the battery should make the starting cycle (Alternator OFF : the alternator draws on the battery when the engine is not running)
5. Landing light on - count 5 seconds - check voltage: should be +0.2 V higher - Landing light off (electrolite fluid warms up enough to increase battery power more than it drains it)
6. Magnetos LEFT (because the left magneto drives the starting spark); Mixture Fully Rich, Throttle 1/4 inch Forward.
7. Fuel Pomp ON
8. Starter Engage
AFTER START
9. Magnetos BOTH
10. Alternator ON
11. Check Oil Pressure; Check Alternator Load Positive
12. Check Voltage : should be between 12 V and 13.5 V now.
13. Engage remaining electrical equipment as required; Check Alternator Load with each added item.

Any comments ?

Might want to prime a bit somewhere before step 8.

And although I can see the reason behind it, I notice that you don't check your lights during the walkaround (so I assume this is a Day VFR procedure only) and you don't check the (electric) stall warner. Or is yours mechanical?

When it's very cold, the battery will often struggle so I keep the lights to a minimum on start.

Sometimes, I will skip checking the landing light during a pre flight to save the battery, and just get the thing running. Once you've got it going (talking PA28 here) you can see the ammeter jump when you turn any lights or pitot heat on, so can easily see if things are working or INOP.

Indeed, most PA28s only have one switch which gives both beacon and strobes, which does annoy some people. I've never had a problem standing near an aircraft with it's strobes going, so don't really see what the fuss is about, but I do keep these lights off on the ground as i know some people are sensitive to this.

Same here...

During the walk-around I quickly check that lights, pitot heat and stall warner work and then turn them off. In the PA28s I fly I don't turn the strobes+beacon on on the ground but I make sure to give a very loud "clear prop" call and a careful look around.

#27 Unfortunately not too many light aircraft are fitted with a voltmeter mostly have an ammeter. I believe a voltmeter would be much more useful for detecting battery condition and charging problems.

Most portable Garmins can display the voltage when connected to the avionics bus (or car adapter). This is a data field I keep a close eye on since there was an accident in my area where the alternator of a C172RG failed without the pilot noticing and then -- through a series of pilot mistakes -- the aircraft got destroyed and the pilot seriously injured.

Every time I have seen the 'clear prop' call being said, the prop starts turning about 3 nanoseconds after the call, rendering it pointless. I personally use flashing beacon on before going through the whole lookout around, then prime then crank, so the beacon is on for about ten seconds before cranking. Everyone should be doing a good lookout and not relying on people to see a light, or hear a call.

Yep, either that or the person is almost embarressed to be shouting, so just sort of mumbles clear prop out of the window so theres no way anyone could hear.

It should be a clear shout with the emphasis on the "PROP", pause, double check the area is clear and then start cranking.

The other problem is where you've failed to start 1st time, perhaps leave it 30 secs or so and then start cranking again without looking out or recalling. By this time, someone has usually seen you've had trouble starting and is heading over to add their 2p, making the situation slightly more dangerous.

Thanks !
 

Hey thanks a lot for your feed back friends, very helpful.
The amended list is then as follows:

1. Complete Exterior Check with Master Switch Off, Magnetos Off, Disconnect GPS, All Electrical Equipment Off.
2. Pull Aircraft Outside
3. Manually Turn Propellor 6 rotations in the normal rotation direction
(i.e. to the right/clockwise from the pilot seat's point of view, to the left/counterclockwise when standing in front of the aircraft)
4. Master Switch On - check voltage - if above +11.0 V the battery should make the starting cycle (Alternator OFF : the alternator draws on the battery when the engine is not running)
5. Landing light on - count 5 seconds - check voltage: should be +0.2 V higher - Landing light off (electrolite fluid warms up enough to increase battery power more than it drains it)
6. Magnetos LEFT (because the left magneto drives the starting spark); Mixture Fully Rich, Throttle 1/4 inch Forward, Prime 6 times as per POH cold weather ops.
7. Fuel Pomp ON
8. Starter Engage
AFTER START
9. Magnetos BOTH
10. Alternator ON
11. Check Oil Pressure; Check Alternator Load Positive
12. Check Voltage : should be between 12 V and 13.5 V now.
13. Engage remaining electrical equipment as required; Check Alternator Load with each added item.

For night operations, I would replace point 5 by :
5. Landing light on, Nav Lights on
Run around the aircraft to check all 4 lights operating
Landing light off, Nav Lights off

For IFR operations in winter, I would ignore the Start Up Clearance chore and call them when the engine is already running. 1 minute of two way radio is sufficient to deplete the battery beyond starting capabilities.

Pitot tube heat operability can be checked by the load meter difference. If you turn on 200-odd Watts of pitot heat in the above aircraft in winter, without the engine and the alternator running, you're going to stay on the ground.

I don't think you can do that with the Nav lights, as they are shielded from the cockpit and you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the load with one of the three of them being inop.

As for the stall warner, how important is that check ? I mean, in some PA28 types the stall warning is a red indicator which you cannot see from where you're pushing the stall vane.

My normal procedure is to check the lights (and stall warning) during my walk around, then turn on the beacon only before start.

On VERY cold days and with a weak battery I have on occasion enlisted the help of someone to check the lights for me after I've got the engine going. Only had to resort to that a couple of times, though.

I open the window (Cessna) for my 'clear prop' call (seen too many guys shout at themselves inside the cockpit...)

If startup clearance is required, then I usually make that call with my handheld. Also use that if at a very busy airport with clearance delivery, as they sometimes give you a taxi delay - no point sitting on the ramp with an engine turning.

Strobes: on upon entering rwy, off upon leaving rwy post-landing.

Seriously? I agree it uses more to tx than rx but what sort of battery won't run a radio prior to start?

I notice few of you advocate pulling the prop through a dozen or so compressions on a cold start. I find doing so helps, as does using multigrade oil, and priming a couple of pumps before pulling the prop through. I don't have a beacon to turn on, or a stall warner. But I can yell clear prop in five languages. And it is loud, and with the door open. Then wait five seconds......

Oh, and I need a good battery to work the shower of sparks on the mags, which I admit is unusual. Means hand swinging on a flat battery is not very useful as an option. A bit feeble, yes, but not completely dead. Jump leads are your friend here.

How many on here have had to resort to Jump Leads?

I've had to wheel a ground power pack out a couple of times last winter until the boss finally replaced the battery.

I've also seen someone jump start a PA28 using their car.

I did it once, cowling off, car very close to wing, careful not to allow the prop to get tangled up in jump leads, start, run for long enough to start itself, stop, disconnect, refit cowling, move car, re-start (only just). Pain in the ass, not recommended.

And might be worth leaving the beacon switch on permanently - if you have left the aircraft and have the keys etc, and the beacon is still on, you're gonna get a flat battery! Good visual indication that the master has been left on.

On a 172, you'll easily get more than 1 minute two-way out of the radios - won't get a flat battery.

I check starter warning light out after start and that brakes are holding.
Oh yes - and check brakes are on before starting...

Another thing I do is check that the controls which can move (so not rudder if linked to the nose wheel) can reach their control limits and are free once you are sitting in (so avoiding knee boards). I also exercise each of the other physically operated controls (such as alternate air, trim, mixture, etc).

I pretty much never have nav lights on as my permit AC isn't night rated, so they are never needed (so why bother drawing the power and wasting the bulbs). I might turn them on for added visibility for others if getting near dusk, but if I'm having difficulty seeing - I shouldn't be flying!