The Fear of Falling????
 

Guys,

I'm busy taking my PPL but everytime I have a lesson I just can't relax.

I can't put it down to a 'fear of heights' because standing on top of tall buildings like the Empire State Building doesn't worry me at all, however I was forced to go on The London Eye last week and hated it. I hate high fairground rides too!

It seems as though it's falling that worries me ie when suspended it the air (you couldn't get me to do a parachute jump or in a hot air balloon for love nor money).

Has any one else experience this?

And any thoughts on how to overcome it?

All comments would be gratefully appreciated.

I could give a very long post talking about my fear of open heights..

But in short to answer your questions,

Yep I've experienced similar feelings

The best way to overcome it is to stick at it and build air time


I did find a low wing training plane helped me a lot early on. Now I've been up in open microlights and fly high wing planes without too much worry. It just took some time.

CG,

So it's just a matter of time do you think?

I'd be more than happy to read about your 'fear of open heights' as well if you can be bothered?

J.

Interesting screen name for one with such an affliction :)

I'm not a psychologist but do you have any height related traumas from your past? Could it be an old fear? Difficult to answer, I know. I have an irrational phobia about hypodermic needles - bad thing in France where they like to look at your blood for the slightest excuse. I couldn't tell you where this phobia comes from!

No not at all the only 'phobia' I have is birds having been trapped in a room with one as it came down the chimney when I was a very young age but nothing at all related to heights.

I can't say for sure it will be just time for you as I'm not a doctor so can only say for me things improved over time.


I hadn't thought of it is a phobia, perhaps it is though.

I could never tolerate open heights, cliff edges, tops of tall buildings, walking over high bridges. I would experience an almost overwhelming sensation I would fall. I remember when very young this could be so strong I would actually 'freeze'.

I guess it is natural enough this surfaced during my early flying lessons. In the end I think it was just trust in the fact the aeroplane wasn't about to fall out of the sky and I wasn't about to fall out of it. But it did take quite a long time before I could say I was really comfortable with the concept. So glide approaches, stalling, flying in rough conditions, go-arounds all built up a picture in my mind that aeroplanes are happiest in the air and things were just fine.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that fear of open heights is more common in pilots than the general population. Sorry I don't have a reference for where I came across that, but I'm sure this won't be the first or last thread on PPruNe on the subject.

I know one thing that helped me was discussing the problem with my instructor, he admitted the same fear of open heights and that helped me a lot to convince myself flying simply wasn't the same thing. ;)

Just as a footnote to my last post, it's a subject well worth a google:

Pilots and Fear of Heights

Plenty more too.

So the thought there is it is not a phobia but quite normal for pilots.

In my case at least the fear was worse than the actual thing. Since childhood I've always been afraid of heights but only if I am close to an edge. e.g. can't stand next to a cliff, or a low-ledge balcony etc.

But since then over the years I've flown a Cessna, climbed a climbing wall and even went skydiving.

My lesson was that the fear was the worst part. The actual experience was quite enjoyable.

My next goal is a roller coaster! ;-)

PS. I still have a phobia of being upside down. Stall and spin training seems scary as hell and I am not sure if I can ever manage an acrobatic plane in my life!! :uhoh:

CG,

Thanks for the link, my problem is though that i'm not unduly scared of heights but put me in a small 'twitchy' helicopter and I seem to feel a little uneasy.

What I forgot to say is that it's a helicopter that i'm training in, the Robinson R22 to be precise and I think it's the unstability of it that makes me feel anxious especially in thermals etc, plus being 2000ft up in a tiny glass bubble with a full view of the ground from every angle and the feeling that when if over control it, that it's going to topple over!

Someone likened the feeling to you being the head of a pin and whichever way your moved the yoke/cyclic it felt like you were going to fall off!

So it actually seems I have the opposite to the pilots mentioned in your link.......i'm absolutely fine when my feet are firmly on land or a fixed structure at any height but when i'm in something with nothing below or can see literally see through my feet as it were from a height it makes me feel uneasy such as on The London Eye, yet i've been to the very very top of Blackpool Tower without any problems!

So maybe it's just a feeling of safety, I couldn't walk across a very high swinging rope bridge as I might fall off, I couldn't travel in a hot air balloon as it might plummet, I don't feel safe on fairground rides, but on towers there is something under your feet to stop you falling hence feeling safer!

Strange!

Yep, I knew that from your first post but you did ask to hear about my fear of open heights ;)

I do think though that how it manifested is similar to what you describe. I've not flown a helicopter and would guess the Robinson R22 is very twitchy. What I would experience was a strong sense I would fall during turbulence and feelings such as if I banked the plane it would topple over on its back. This problems went away in time.

Well that's good to know that in time it got better!

On my last lesson, the instructor banked the helicopter so hard that my palms were soaking but I think it was his way of showing me how steep these aircraft can bank without problems.

The strange thing is that I looked for something to hang onto which is in itself stupid because if the helicopter did topple over, me hanging onto the door handle or seat base isn't going to make any difference at all!

This makes me think that I actually have the 'fear of falling' rather than 'vertigo' or the 'fear of heights'!

I would guess that when it is you banking the helicopter, and not the instructor, you will feel better about it. You will be controlling the situation, which always helps.

And R22s are twitchy. It took me ages before I could change even a single digit on the transponder without losing 200 ft. I think just the weight shift changed the pitch!

24Carrot,

I WAS in control but just couldn't manage to bank the R22 anymore than about 10 or 15 degrees for that fear of it toppling over which is why I think he demonstrated to me how much bank it would actually it would take! It was also the fear of over controlling it and falling off this imaginary pin (see previous posts)!

How I remember it is that I would be thinking bank, then find my hand gripping the controls for grim death and preventing the plane banking (blimey bank it too much and I'll either fall or the plane will topple over), so I would be in a right bank but my hand was always stuck wanting to apply a left control.

I went through exactly the same thing again learning to side-slip Cubs, I really had to force myself to do it, but it came in the end. (With plenty of encouragement from the right instructor).

Not sure what would help flying a helicopter, I know practicing steep turns in a 'plane made ordinary ones seem better for me. Being able to do really big side slips on approach in a Cub has made me much more confident about flying in general too.

I felt that an instructor demonstrating doesn't always help. I would discuss the sensations with your instructor and see what he thinks. You may just be someone who has more fear of doing something wrong than most, my tailwheel instructor figured that about me and since then I've found it much easier to get on with things, safe in the knowledge there isn't much I can do that he can't get us out of, which is letting me gain a lot more confidence in my own ability than I ever had during the PPL.

GC,

As always another great post, thank you.

I think I must reshape the controls I grip so hard which prevents me from doing what I need to do.

So do you think it's just a case of press on and the more hours I do the better I will feel?

It's just at £300 per hour I hope I feel a bit more relaxed sooner rather than later!

Thanks again for your encouraging posts!

We joked after my 'breakthrough' side slipping lesson that the top of the stick in the Cub started life square and had only become round due to my death grip on it. ;)

Once I relaxed I found it really fun to be looking at the runway out of a side window, not only that but with a relaxed grip I was able to just play with the bank and rudder controls to see what would happen. A week before I was making absolutely pathetic attempts at slipping and couldn't even hold the runway center line because I was holding off the bank too much, for fear of, well you know, falling or the Cub toppling over. :hmm:

See if you can relax the grip on the next flight and chill a bit. I'm sure it will come together. But really don't be afraid to talk to your instructor I realised a long time ago they have seen it all before and when one is honest about fears and problems they will absolutely do their best to help out. :ok:

I'm going for aeros soon, seems to me the only way to really overcome it all is to make all attitudes and sensations 'normal'. :\

It's funny because part of me thinks stuff this lark and find an aerobatic display pilot to take me up and get it all out of my system in one flight!!!!

So what actually was it that eventually made it all just click into place for you?

For me it has been a case of sticking at it, facing what I had problems with and asking for help to overcome it from instructors. Mostly though just time in the air is the main thing.

Well i'll keep going but at nearly £300 an hour i'\m not sure how long for!

CG has given you some good advice.

I never had your fears at height, but I did get seriously tense when the skids were a couple of feet off the ground. Learning to set down took ages. There was no breakthrough, it just got better with practice.

Or as Pilot DAR put it in another thread: over time it gets less worse less slowly!

Don't give up!:ok:

I have a fear of heights. Especially when I'm physically connected to whatever I'm standing on. Famously, this is why I never got higher than the second floor of the Eiffel Tower or why I feel really uncomfortable looking out over edges of cliffs, buildings, whatever.

When I fly less so, as I'm disconnected from earth. But, I have to admit having flown both Helicopter and FW, that the helicopter gave me that uncomnfortbale feeling when we flew high. Anything say above a 1000ft and I felt very vulnerable. Don't have the same problem with FW, but if I start thinking about structural or wing spar failure, it comes! So I try not to.:)


It's my greatest fear in flying - catastrophic structural failure and not having control. Thankfully, it's rare.

I did manage to exit a perfectly servicable aircraft at 2,000' with a static line chute, being that high the normal survival fear instinct wasn't triggered!

They say the hardest thing to do in parachute training is the low jump because your genes recognize THAT TREE IS TOO TALL! - AND THIS WILL PROBABLY HURT!

I find that a closed cockpit glider or light aircraft is not a problem. Open cockpit, or the Super Cub in a well banked right turn with the door open, now that sets all the alarm bells ringing, as well as being enormous fun when you get used to it! From a Zedburgh glider you can spit on the spectators!

From the ground, you can hear them screaming quite clearly, as they go over the top of the loop.

Probably better you don't ask for aerobatics at this stage. When you are confident in handling your aircraft, it makes more sense for you to practice the interesting maneuvers, as when you have control of the situation it is not nearly so scary as having to sit there clenching while some clown throws it around.

I started out in gliders and had no problems with heights then. As a child and a teenager I had a normal fear of heights but this didn't translate into a fear of flying. I then started flying a flexwing microlight. This had just a fairing around my feet and a lap belt. I quickly got over any fear of height but ever since, I have had an opposite affliction; the urge to jump out.

I'm a perfectly sane individual with no mental health issues and enjoy life immensely, but when presented with a big drop, a large part of me wants to jump. What makes this particularly odd is that I've never been attracted to skydiving. It goes away though in enclosed cockpits and high-sided open cockpits. Perhaps I should skydive just to scratch the itch.

I've flown aeros, both powered and in gliders and found that the only new fear factor to get over was when hanging in the straps whilst diving near vertically under negative G. It took about 1/2hr to get over it and now I can't wait until I have the pennies to buy into a Christen Eagle syndicate.

If there's anyone out there who wants a very willing victim for the front seat of their Extra/Pitts/Eagle/Cap then please let me know.

AdamF,

When it comes down to it, maybe that is actually my fear too, a component failure and not having control, hence not enjoying fun fair rides, The London Eye, hot air balloons or even driving at excessive speeds!

Maybe it's a feeling of trust!

Perhaps it's the fact that that the Robinson R22 is so small and fragile looking and twitchy, I wonder if i'd feel as uneasy if flying in a Sea King which gives the 'illusion' of being more substantial and better built!

K77.

Here is an article I wrote for AOPA Magazine a few years ago on pilot anxiety. You may find it useful.
www.hampshireplans.co.uk/AOPA/article.pdf

Not keen on heights - such as at the top of a skyscraper. But with fixed wing flying I don't get that anxiety - likely reason is that a plane will not "fall" like I would from the top of a building; it will glide gracefully to the ground.

Maybe one can rationalise it.

I hate being up on a ladder - even 2m high. But flying has never been an issue.

Once I flew with a friend who got anxious when we did a turn. He thought that if you tip the plane to one side, it will slide down, sideways. So I showed him that this doesn't happen (the centrifugal force balances the pull of gravity) and he was fine after that.

I knew an RAF lightning pilot now a BA747 Captain who used to go dizzy looking over the top of a shear drop (true)

Pace

IO540,

It's the turns that I struggle with, as soon as I bank I want to level out straight away, I struggle with moving the cyclic as far left or right as I need to as something is telling me to move it the opposite way.

I hope it's something i'll overcome, and quickly!

I have fear of heights, I hate the steps up to the entrance of a normal 737 but I don't fear that anxiety when I fly.

Someone once told me you need to have contact with the ground to have real fear of heights, and it seems to work for me that way.

I have no issues with steep turns, I find height in a plane exciting, the view to the ground magic, literally zero fear of the height.

But on my way to the Alps by car, the motorway from Dijon to Geneva, near Nantua just kills me. sweaty palms and all! The new Milleau bridge is one I will not cross.....

Yawningdog,

I have just read your article in full.

Thank you for the link, it was extremely interesting.

I had no idea anxiety was so common among pilots.

It was really interesting to read that you are more relaxed flying with a cloud cover rather than in bright clear blue skies...............I feel exactly the same........but WHY, I don't know the answer?

K77.

Fear of Heights
 

I have had a fear of heights as far back as I can remember (60+years!) but it is of "open" exposures. I have been to the top of Sears Tower when it was the highest building in the world and had no problem looking out, but felt very uncomfortable two weeks ago getting onto a glass sided escalator crossing the void at the middle of a shopping centre. I have never had a problem with flying or most mechanical transport, I loved crossing the Forth Bridge, by train, as a child, but would not have wanted to walk across!
I don't mind high places in a train but get spooked in a car, so there may be an element of control freakary!
The silliest experience was flying IFR but in the clear, in a Cherokee6 with a fellow controller who was also high hours PPL. As we levelled at FL50 over the Needles, on the Isle of Wight, we could clearly see cars making their way along the cliff road out to the point. Looking at these people from 5,000 feet above them, we both turned and uttered the same thought to each other, "you wouldn't get me up there!"
All perspective and it can change!

I've had it happen to me. I've parachuted and abseiled and enjoy skiing steep slopes. I have no problem being near an edge as long as I have confidence that what I'm standing on or can grab is secure. On the face of it I should have no problem.

In my case it happened when I was in a glider and joined another in a thermal. A short distance away from me was another glider and underneath, holding it up was............. nothing! My immediate thought was that a few inches under my backside was.......... nothing, and lots of it.

This was many years after I learned to fly so why did it suddenly maniifest itself? I have no idea but you get used to it, it's all a matter of having confidence in what's holding you up, whether it's a climbing rope, a ladder, a karabiner or an airframe. We don't worry about a chair bed or hammock giving way under us do we? Once the confidence is there you stop worrying about it.

I can understand the feeling in an R22, after all what your flying is some distance above you, all you're doing is dangling underneath it!

Interesting thread....

I have absolutely zero fear of heights whilst flying and like other posters have done static line parachuting with no probs - from standing on the wing of a DH Rapide.

Likewise tall buildings, cliffs etc are fine with me

However, I completely freak when faced with heights WITHIN a building, for example looking down the centre of a high staircase.

I once agreed to climb up to the whispering gallery in St Pauls. When I emerged at the circular walkway with a 200 ft plus void below the sensation of falling to my death was overwhelming. I froze with fear and my wife had to carefully prise my hands from the railings and guide me back to the stairs.

I spent 20+ years climbing ladders and telephone poles with no issues, and can't remember having problems on any tall buildings. But when I started learning to fly in a flexwing microlight I certainly wasn't happy. In fact I quit after a few lessons. However I had another go and persevered. My instructor was quite correct that I would feel happier when I was doing the flying, rather than just being a passenger.

Now 20 years and 1200 hours later I have packed it in (money & health, being the main reasons). Over this period there were a number of occasions when I was genuinely scared - principally during turbulence, and in this situation I would always descend to low level, where I felt somewhat safer. Why, I don't know, I just did - that & "fear of heights", maybe? On the other hand I've been up to 10,000 ft in calm conditions and been OK (if bitterly cold). But the slightest "bump" would set my heart rate rising! I was perfectly happy chucking it around at up to 2000 ft or so, but no way would you find me practising "unusual attitudes" at higher levels... I've had a few short flights in R22's and can understand the "twitchyness" comments. I wonder if a lesson in something a bit heavier might help you?

Hi KNIEVEL77

I've watched this thread with some interest as I recently went on a rickety little Ferris wheel and was very unhappy, and nearly had a fit with my 6-year old rocking the seat. She thought it rather funny that her pilot father was uncomfortable at an altitude of about 50 ft! My wife is also uncomfortable whenever our aircraft banks.

My rationalisation is that it is a matter of confidence in whatever you are in or on. When new to any device preventing you from falling to your death, it is probably wise to be a little circumspect. However, with time and further experience, you build up trust in the device. You learn what it is you should be scared of, and what you don't need to be afraid of. Perhaps the irrationality of the fear may become clear when nothing happens and you see other people NOT falling out of the sky.

I'm not sure the steep banking by the instructor will be helpful - I find it's better to build up confidence in new flyers slowly by flying with only rate 1 turns and not pushing their boundaries any more than necessary. But then I'm not trained as an instructor and there may be some merit in demonstrating the excessive to show the normal is , well, normal!

Best wishes

Caroberts,

Thanks for your post.

I agree with you, i'm not too good on rusty old ferris wheels either but quite happy at the top of The Eiffel Tower or Empire State Building.

I suppose I just need to trust the R22 a bit more which, as you say, will hopefully come through time.

K77.

Very interesting reading all these different, yet similar, feelings.

Underneath our rational, civilized world is a dark mass of primeval instincts. So we shouldn't be too surprised when the thought pops into our mind, "there's 2000 feet of thin air 6 inches below my seat and I'm going to DIE!"

If you've never experienced this, your veneer of rationality is just a bit thicker.

It takes TIME to get used to the view out of the window - your problem, Knievel, is that you're paying £300 per hour for the view. One solution might be to find a cheaper good view - micro-lighting springs to mind.

However, the scares will always come back at some point - a new situation, a new aircraft, whatever - get used to dealing with it. Fear is good, anyway, in moderation - it keeps you sharp.

Agree with many of the previous posts, in that tall buildings down to the humble step-ladder incurs a distinct queasiness in me. Yet I have flown in many a/c from microlights upwards and enjoyed every moment, even at extreme turbulence, angles of bank, inverted etc. I've never been able to understand this, but am heartened to know I'm not alone; seriously, simply going up through the loft hatch is put off unless absolutely necessary with me.

I too hate heights, or rather I hate exposure to heights which is a different thing I believe. Walking along mountain paths in the Alps I can feel my anxiety levels creeping up the narrower the path becomes. Quite irrational as their is virtually no chance of falling from the path over the side.

I have no problem at all when flying, although I once tried a tandom paraglide flight in Switzerland and suffered greatly. The strange feeling of being suspended way infront of the instructor in what felt like a very slack harness with several thousand feet of valley floor beneath my feet certainly made me feel very exposed. When he handed me control of the wing I felt much better, in fact I came to quite enjoy the experience! I might even do a course one day!:\