After a flight like that I would be changing my undies! Spinning makes me feel ill, it always has, except the one time we did it at 12,000'.

I was looking at the sky over Amsterdam last Sunday and it was one of those "wish I was up there" moments indeed.

At about one o'clock the streets started to appear. They were gone again around four.

Winch Driving
 

During a period of unemployment from a "proper job", I once became a paid professional winch driver for a gliding club located on top of a Cotswold near Stroud. Suffice it to say that that job was (strangely) considered untouchable by many of more affluent club members.

Driving the winch eventually becomes an art - controlling the aircraft's speed by assessment of the bow in the cable, and flying him in the last stages of the launch like a kite.

Make a point of flying from as many sites as you can. You will become so aware of weather and topographic effects, sea-breeze fronts, ridge curl-over...

It is very time consuming but very rewarding. :ok:

Hey, Backpacker, do you suppose we could have followed those cloud streets all the way to Amsterdam?

I did declare a cross channel flight once, from North Hill in Devon - but chickened out. Friend of mine has done it - Gary McKirdy. Trouble with doing the crossing is then you have to get the glider back home. Now that's another story.....

I wasn't paying all that much attention but it looks like the streets were roughly N-S. So not all that great for crossing the channel.

Then again, I haven't been more than 5km from home base yet, so who am I to tell you whether you could cross the channel or not?:sad:

I do have my first written glider exam this Saturday though, so it may not be too long before I start doing x-countries without the benefit of a fan up front.

The first one you do will be the most memorable. Breaking the 'umbilical' of being within gliding range of the airfield is never to be forgotten. The first one I did was for my Silver and I can remember every minute of it. Enjoy. Incidentally, I just signed up today for my PPL so I'm going to be a beginner again too. It will seem strange going cross country with a fan in front........what's it like flying in a straight line?

I've been aiming at doing my gliders license for the last three years - even posted on the topic once here previously. Even bought and read the study books.

However, have yet to be in one place long enough to do anything other than think (or read) about it.

I'm sorry to bend this thread - but I may have a possibility at being in Poland for work for a duration long enough to do something more than think about it.

The question I have is - if I put the time in to get the license in Poland could I use the license in the UK or would I have to convert it to a UK license? If so what would be the limitations or issues?

Boring, eventually. At least, after having done an aerobatics course and some competitions (and of course some glider flying), straight and level flying doesn't have much appeal to me anymore. It's become more of a method of getting somewhere (where I need the plane) than an aim in itself.

Oh, and in powered flying if you look backwards you can just see the burned remains of your euro/dollar/pound bills exit the exhaust.:{

Heady, Hi.

First, there is no official (CAA-issued, internationally recognised) UK glider pilot licence. We fly gliders without needing one in this country, any more than you need a yacht master’s certificate to take out a rowing or sailing boat.

Second, experience gained elsewhere will stand you in good stead in the UK, subject to check rides and refresher training if you need it. If you get as far as having a licence abroad, I would expect it to be convertible to a UK licence when we have one.

There will be a UK licence when EASA FCL comes into play, 2012-2015 (as far as one can tell at present). People who already have sufficient gliding experience and qualifications by 2012 will have some sort of “grandfather” right and be granted a licence during the transition period.

The right experience is probably (IMHO – not seen anything official) to be at least Bronze, more likely Bronze plus cross-country endorsement, and possibly after at least doing one solo cross country flight of say 50km. It might need as much as Silver – all the above, plus gain of height of 1000m and duration flight of 5 hours – but I doubt it, as that would be more that a PPL has to do for a power licence.

Look at the BGA website if you want more info on these things (Bronze, Silver etc. are peculiar to gliding).

(Notwithstanding my first paragraph above, don’t get confused if you read about the BGA Licence. There is one, but it is not CAA-issued, nor internationally recognised – it was created in the hope of the latter, but has not worked in France for example, as I understand it. We have to get a temporary licence to fly in several countries abroad. That will no longer be needed when we all have EASA licences – probably the only benefit of this whole sorry EASA bureaucracy and added cost without added safety.)

Chris N

Thanks much appreciated.

I was not aware of the up-coming EASA FCL issues and complications.

Might be just the thing to push me into action.

I've decided: I'm also going to start gliding again!:ok:

I was just reading about this subject yesterday. In the Netherlands, exam authorization has been delegated to the KNVvL for gliding. Their exam is supposedly ICAO compliant, so what they issue at the moment is an ICAO compliant GPL which should be valid for flight worldwide.

Indeed, with EASA around the corner, this is going to change. There will be a LAPL(G) (Light Aeroplane Pilot License) and a SPL (Sailplane Pilots License). LAPL is the new, generic, Euro-wide sub-ICAO license for light aircraft, and the SPL is ICAO compliant and thus valid worldwide.

The theory and practical requirements for both will be the same, the only difference is the medical. SPL will require an EASA class II (identical to a PPL today) but the LAPL(G) will have less requirements (self declaration in combination with a GP visit.)

Theory requirements will change compared to the current ICAO GPL. Instead of six, there are now nine exams. Four of these overlap with the current PPL syllabus. Actually, it seems these four will be common to all variants of the LAPL, including (G), (A) and (M). The other five have the same title as their current PPL counterparts but are specific to gliding.

Practical requirements will change as well and are indeed leaning more towards the Bronze/Silver qualifications. Although they don't fully implement those.

Specifically, here is the full list of requirements for the LAPL(G) and SPL, at least according to the website I found below. (Translation and comments are mine though.)
- 16 years of age
- Minimum 15 hours flight experience (minimum 3 hr solo, 12 hr dual) and 45 starts (doesn't specify solo starts though)
- A 50 km solo x-country, or 100 km with an instructor
- At most 10 hours on a TMG (I assume they mean at most 10 hours can be counted towards license requirements)
- Minimum of 10 hours experience after getting your passenger endorsement. (I don't understand this at all. To me, this implies that you are allowed to fly with passengers before you get the license. That can't be right.)
- If you have another type of license, you can count 10% of those hours, to a maximum of 6 hours, towards the experience requirements
- You have to do the theory- and practical bits of the course at an ATO (approved training organization) and they determine whether you are ready for the exam.
- You have to have theoretical knowledge at the ICAO level through a pass in the nine theoretical exams. All theoretical exams must be finished within 18 months after the first pass.
- All theory plus practical exams need to be finished within 24 monts after passing the first exam.
- The authorized start methods are initially only those that were done during the exam. (You need endorsements for other start methods.)

And strangely, I could not find any conversion path from an ICAO compliant, Dutch-issued GPL to an EASA LAPL(G) or GPL.

All this comes from the following page, which is unfortunately in Dutch:

zweefvliegopleiding

This is gliding. Apply yourself and you'll be having this sort of fun in a year or so. Don't expect to be able to compete with these people (for a while) but you can expect to have as much fun as them. And once you get into cross-country and "interesting" soaring you'll often find that there is another "club" inside the main club who will help you progress. They'll do anything to add to their numbers because as the group gets bigger, so the fun gets larger.

PM

My "winter refresher" a couple of weeks ago was a rather enjoyable 7 minute flight

• sitting on the ground, we saw a pair of buzzards fly over
• one minute later we were in the right place, but couldn't see them
• so we meandered slowly upwards in a thermal until a bird flew past us
• we simultaneously realised it wasn't a buzzard but was a red kite, the first I've seen
• we turned and followed it, slowly overtaking it about 15m away (we gazed into each other's eyes...)
• then a stall followed by a spin
• the instructor took control and only gave control back to me when we were not far off doing a chandelle
• and intimated I should "get out of that" and "get us back to the airfield"

I did help out at the launch point after that, but I felt as if I was 6" off the ground. Glorious.

As another who has thought about and taken up gliding I am currently considering the purchase of a GPS unit. Is there a unit that fits well with power (VFR) and gliding, that is compatible with recorders? Would rather not have to buy 2.

Cheers,

BB

Do you mean an official data logger, to be used for recording various achievements? I would assume that these data loggers are sealed units somehow, with anti-tamper protection and whatnot, and not reliant on external GPS input.

Modern flight recorders come with their own internal GPS - it's quite common to have your navigation software running on a PDA use the GPS data from the recorder.

There are still some old school EW recorders around that need to be paired with an equally old Garmin, but who wants to use an old GPS III these days?

Now I am more confused!!

I have indeed asked at the club about the EW units which I have been advised require external GPS input.

My initial thoughts were Skydemon with a compatible logger, if possible. However if technology has moved on then all the better.

Can you recommend a logger and navigation software that works well?


Thanks,

BB

If you want something that's acceptable for all gliding badge flights you need an IGC approved logger. These have a pressure sensor for altitude (GPS altitude isn't accurate enough), produce a secure trace (it has a checksum included) and are also secure devices - if you open them up that is recorded in the trace, they have to go back to the maker to be resealed.

http://www.fai.org/gliding/system/fi...proved_frs.pdf

The EW Microrecorder is popular amongst those of us buying new now - it will run for a long time on it's own batteries and can supply the NMEA and 5v out to drive a moving map on a PDA.

An IGC Flarm is also popular, but it requires an external power supply and stops without one.

Neither of these have a built-in display - you have to use something else for that. If you look round glider cockpits you will find all manner of devices and software used.

If you aren't interested in badge flights or can borrow an IGC logger for those then the new Aware thingie might be what you are looking for, though when I took one outside on a bright day I wasn't that impressed with how easy to read the screen is. I gather it also gives rather a lot of alarms if you are thermalling!

However you might wear your welcome a bit thin if you have to keep borrowing an IGC logger for your Gold distance flight (300 km). It takes most people several attempts to do this.

Thanks cats_five, I have had a look at the EW microrecorder and it looks like the tool for the job.

Being pretty well clueless about this technology can I ask if there is such a thing as a basic PDA that would run well with it. I am not particularly interested in the whole range of functionality (and associated cost) that most PDAs have, I would be happy with a cost effective solution for the sole purpose of being used with the recorder on gliding and power flights.

Cheers,

BB

If you look at the PDAs being used they are mostly quite old, as the screens are easier to see in daylight. Suggest you look at what people are using where you fly, as having a local 'expert' can be very useful. See if they will let you 'test drive' in a car.

Note that if your PC doesn't have a serial port you may need to provide one for older PDAs. USB/serial converters seem to have a patchy track record, internal cards (for desktop PCs) and PCI cards (for laptops) seem to generally work properly. And if the PDA will write a declaration suitable for the EW to an SD card that's good as well - you use the PDA to write the declaration, put the card in the EW and turn it on. The other approach is to simply put the correct pilot & glider details in the EW and do paper declarations. Remember, the latest one is the valid one.

Note also you want a PDA that takes 5v in (I have a very old one that takes 3.3v!), as that's what the Microrecorder supplies out for a PDA, so long as it's connected to the glider's power supply. For some bizarre reason the Flarm I have supplies 3.3v out!

I use an EWD with a Garmin 12XL all connected to an IPAQ HX4700 PDA using a cable provided for this purpose by Severn Valley sailplanes. I run free LK8000 software on the PDA. The IPAQ cost me about £50 on ebay, there are usually plenty on there.

If you use an EW micorecorder you can also get a suitable cable from Severn Valley I believe and then you do not need a seperate GPS.

The cable I use also includes a 12V to 5V converter to run the IPAQ from the glider batteries.

Baby Bear, I don't think you have provided enough information for the most useful advice you could be given.

Are you going to be flying in a club glider, in which you will take your own equipment with you, or a privately owned glider of your own, in which you can install whatever you want?

Are you looking for equipment with self-contained batteries, or can you feed the units from an existing battery on the glider?

If the things are going to go into club gliders, how are you going to hold them in place so that you can see and use them?

It is not only a question of the equipment itself, there is also the need for connecting wires with the right terminals, and a DC/DC transformer if you need to convert from a 12 V supply which runs the logger to a 3.3 or 5.5 V supply which runs the display unit.

For what it's worth, my display unit is an iPaq 3850, which gives a good sunlight readable colour display. You can buy them second-hand on eBay.

If you are prepared to spend the money on an EW logger, why on earth not spend a small amount extra on a Flarm with logging capability, and have some protection against collisions as well? (Gliding collisions cost 20 lives over a 23 year period. It is one of the big three hazards in recent gliding accident records.)

You can download free gliding software rather than spending a lot of money on commercial packages. Displayed on a PDA such as the iPaq, these things show moving map, give airspace alerts, and display/calculate other things which are useful for gliding.

Hope that helps.

Chris N

Thanks again all.

chrisN - I am currently flying club gliders, however this is likely to change with me buying a share.

You are right that I have not given much consideration to the mounting or connecting of the device as my objective was to try and identify the best option for serving my gliding and power needs. I do not want to buy Skydemon, for example, only to discover it is not compatible with gliding and have to incur additional costs.

BB

One of our members was demonstrating a Mio car GPS that he jailbreaked and installed LK8000 on. He also has a generic car GPS set up the same way and was offering them for $100 and $125.

Indeed.

The trouble with PDAs is that nobody makes them anymore; even if you get an old one off ebay, getting the power/data cables & connections sorted is a major pain.

As RBF points out, the fashionable thing to do these days is buy a car satnav with Win CE as it's operating system & change the settings so that it loads programs from an SD card. Have a look at this Skydemon forum. It seems that you can get software to run on many cheap satnavs simply by changing the name of the yoursoftware.exe file to cheapsatnav.exe & then saving it to an SD card.

Once you've made it work with SkyDemon, you should be able to repeat the process & run gliding nav. software on it as well.

I'm sure that SkyDemon is compatible with gliding, it's just not as useful as dedicated gliding software. The best solution is a single device that runs multiple software (and a separate logger).