The scariest part of flying
 

For some it's the stall, or steep turns. Or maybe the landing. Well, I've got my PPL, been aerobatted and everything else, ant there's never been anything I've worried about but yesterday I confronted something which has been nagging at me for some years, but which I knew I was going to have to tackle some day. Because I am interested in old aeroplanes. And you don't even get in to do it. I am talking about prop-swinging.

Yesterday I was at the Tiger Club when there were very few people there. I was there to help out - I don't feel ready to fly yet - and someone was needed to swing the Cub's prop. Nettle. Grasp.

Now I feel that if I had started swinging props years ago - I was shown how to do it by the fireman at Sunderland, in 1981 - I would never have built up a 'thing' about it. but I didn't, and I have. Chris Bellhouse gave me a great breifing a few months ago and we swung various 'dead' props in and out of the hangar, but all of a sudden I was needed to do the job.

I must say, I felt confident. I knew the routine, having been on the pilot's end so many times, and the Cub's prop is within easy reach and light. We primed, sucked in and went for it; but it was a cold day and she wouldn't fire. So we switched off, I swung through to clear the cylinders, then we tried again. All the time I had been pulling through I was rehearsing my movements, particularly being aware of the natural pull towards the blades. One pull- nothing. Another pull and she fired. Suddenly, the disc was right in front of me and that's when I had the shock of fear. Suppose I hadn't got my hand out of the way in time? Suppose I fell forward? Uugh. Anyway, I'd done it and I had to move on to the chocks.

So there it was....my first prop swing, and a totally unremarkable success...........until the next time!! :sad:

keymusic, you ought to get yourself across the briny and visit Jack Brown's Seaplane base in Winter Haven, Florida.....the technique for starting the engines of the cute little yellow J-3 cub is always the same, as they don't have batteries and all those modern doodahs....

You untie the aircraft from the dock. The student is sitting in the front. You step out on the float beside your student, and pull the prop through from behind. Works a treat.

In the UK, once or twice we've had to hand prop my Super Cub. I prefer to sit inside and give suggestions, while a nice tall young man (sometimes not even young, Derek Piggot pulled my prop a while back) stands in the right place, one arm behind his back (only lose one that way) and gives it a good yank. Of course there are MASSIVE CHOCKS!

The scariest part of flying is the the drive to and from the airport.

PS

Air to air refueling in a Nimrod used to scare the crap out of me.

I always found, no, still find, the scariest bit is the bill!!!

Many things scare me with it.

•The thought of a structural failure or a main spar failure is probably the scariest one.

•Uneven flap extraction and a snap roll at low level. This is why I check flap connectors even more rigorously than ailerons.

•Descent through IMC layer in hilly terrain with an engine failure.

•Single engine over long water stretches.

•Single engine fire.

•Blade separation in a twin.

But as usual, one manages those fears.

Reading this foum:E

Rod1

The bank statement.

Are we talking about what you fear is going to happen while flying, or the sudden realization of what just happened? There is a difference!

The fear of what is going to (or could) happen will recede as your experience grows, as with increased experience, fewer things should seem to be out of the ordinary. Or at least as far out of the ordinary.... However, a good dose of fear is a useful life saver, and should never be ignored! Ideally, your fear causing you to not do something, will shift to your wisdom causing you not to do it!

Fear of what just happened is quite different.... It gets you some time later, when the whole picture sinks in, and you realize how close you came. I have had that a few too many times (including the only time I have ever damaged an aircraft - while hand propping one).

Those are the ones you must recall, and share, in the hope that others learn before they do it too! It is a certainty that I have the proverbial angle on my shoulder, for all the things I have gotten away with in airplanes, which I should never have. The best I can do is to remind others why they may not be so lucky, and approach with great caution!

Things I remember most, which scared me after that fact.....

I was a 16 year old passenger in a Cessna 150, at night, over the cloud, with airframe ice, which the pilot spun.

I was the pilot of a Cessna 303 (fully deice equipped) which had a factory design flaw (later corrected by AD) and in icing conditons, it tried to swap ends at cruise speed, and worsened when I slowed down.

I was the co pilot of a Twin Otter over the south of France in August, falling out of control because of airframe ice

'seems to be a theme there...

I was the pilot of a Cessna 180 floatplane, which had a flap track separeate on a water touch and go, and the flaps jammed at 20 degrees.

I was the pilot of a Cessna 206 with a trim rigging error, which required an estimated 50 pound push to maintain level flight

I was the pilot of a Cessna 185 floatplane with a rudder system mis-installation, which caused it to want to sawp ends at any speed

Another theme...

I guess I'd say I'm afraid of unmanagable icing encounters, and control system failures. In each of the afore mentioned situations, I had enough time to ask myself "is this the flight which is going to kill me?" (though with the C 206, not much time!)

On the other hand, two weeks ago, I did a series of flight test spins in a Cessna Grand Caravan with an external load. I feared doing it somewhat, but it was all planned and briefed, and ultimately not scary at all! I later mathed out the maximum rate of descent - 9200 FPM!

It is wise to always have some fear, but make sure it's informed fear, and properly managed...

I think that in aviation we all have been at one point or another a little Yellow....:\

:uhoh:

The scariest flying moment - or rather the most stressful - was bringing a PA12 sea plane back into the dock with an FAA examiner onboard, with a brisk wind trying to blow us off the dock and some kids deciding to be messing around in a boat right where I wanted to be....I had to decide where to cut the engine and drift, and I had just buggered my neck getting in the thing so did the whole flight test in pain! Luckily the FAA examiner jumped out of the back seat and onto the jetty to stop us drifting off and it all worked fine and I didn't chop up any kids (and I passed the test).

Other than that, the seaplane rating is the most fun flying I have ever done!

The scariest thing flying where I am is the indians from another flight school, If they make a position report the safest place to be is where they said they are, and at their altitude!!

One of them managed to travel 20Nm in 4 minutes in.... a 152! Another wasn't allowed to take off because he couldn't find the runway, although we can laugh at the pilots, i think the joke is on the instructors who let them go solo.

edit, just add a disclaimer: Yes I have stuffed up too in the past, nobody is perfect (but this group stands out as the 'have-no-idea' personality)

The thing which scares me most is taxiing :)

I had a close encounter with a pothole (£20k) very early on and remain very aware that airfield maintenance is often below a reasonable level.

Single engine night/IMC/fog/ice, especially where two or more of the aforementioned factors combine.

Other pilots who appear not to understand the concept of airmanship. Particularly those that call lining-up at an uncontrolled airfield without noticing I'm on short final.

PilotDAR,
I think my fear falls into both categories. I was afraid of what might happen, before the event, and I was afraid of what might have happened after it!

Anytime you are not in control!!! I am not talking about the aeroplane. The Fear goes when you gain that control back.

"The only man who is truly free is the one who is free from fear"

Pace

Kev,good to see you on here.
I fly a hand swing A65 Cub.
Some prop from behind,holding onto the door frame,others from the front.
I'm nearly always on my own,and there are no parking brakes.
I hand swing from the front.

I chock,tie stick back,no throttle,switches off,prime 1-2 pumps according to weather,then pull through 6 blades,switch 1 on,still no throttle and she normally starts first time.
Some people say the tail should be anchored.
I think the most important thing is not to be distracted,also to be balanced and step away on the prop swing.
Lster

Lster,

Have you ever lost a digit ?

Zulu Echo

Zlu Eco,
Have you,terrrible feeling;)

Zulu
 

Just noticed you are based in God's County,are you north or south?

Losing Comms
 

I always feared losing my comms at a critical moment, and it happened on Wednesday, flying a club aircraft. Middle of the control zone, on handover from radar to the tower, lost the lot!!
Circled over the city as we tried to figure out the confusing picture, did not get comms back, eventually 7600 on the transponder, full-blown emergency now, managed to get one way transmit on approach frequency, and brought in to land with all traffic ops on hold - 5.00 at night.

I have looked back at the incident, and it looks as though we handled it well, and I am glad it has now happened and I have experienced it, but I was a bit panicked and confused for a spell as I tried to 'get the picture':confused:

for me one of the most worrying times is getting the "leans" when single pilot IFR without autopilot when you know that you have no choice but to get over it because you have a good amount of time before being VMC again. The biggest fear has to be a fire onboard that means getting on the ground asap!

In flight fire would be the worst thing. However it is most likely to be electrical and very likely to go out if you pull the main CB.

That's why I carry a battery powered GPS (two actually; the 2nd one would fetch zilch on Ebay and might be handy in the life raft...) and an Icom radio. I bought the Icom radio the day after I got a radio failure during a pre-PPL solo flight. I know one can fly non-radio but some things in life have a really trivial solution so why make life hard?

I'm with the 'Flying Chicken' the bank balence.

I don't like flying gliders that have just been rigged, even if I've checked the connectors a half dozen times. I don't know why particularly, it's just one of those things with me, I'd much rather someone else flew them first in case any important parts fall off..........

I also don't like those sunny hazy summer days that look great from the ground but are like flying in a goldfish bowl once you're airborne. I like to see where I'm going.

Edit: I also feel distinctly uneasy in helicopters. They should have sticking out wings as well that don't move like proper aeroplanes IMO.

The scariest thing about flying is how quickly things can go from fully under control to disaster if you make the wrong decisions.

Swiss cheese
 

Yes, Skyhawk, I think that can sum it up. Several apparently minor issues can very quickly add up to a full scale disaster. A perfectly routine flight, can all of a sudden end up difficult when something 'unexpected' happens. We ''train'' for it all to happen, and go flying when hopefully we have assessed everything, and the flight goes to plan.

The issues start, when of course, things screw up. The decision process begins. I once did a really stupid thing. I was flying from Bournmouth into Halfpenny Green, when about 35 miles to run,following the good old magenta, my GPS quit. Guess what, my map was in the back, and I could not reach it. I had not been to that airfield before. Weather was deteriorating, and the wind had picked up.

I then began calculating my drift, calculating everything to try and guide me to the destination. I remember not having the slightest clue where I actually was, and if my track would get me there. Oh, I was also tight on fuel.

I remembered that flight and vowed never to do that again..

The scariest things that have happened to me which were frightening at the time but worse later during the night when I woke up in a cold sweat at what might have happened was having a couple of near miss midair collisions.

First was climbing out at an airfield during type conversion familiarisation training and at 100ft hearing then seeing an RAF Phantom go underneath me, just above the tree tops. I immmediatley spun my head around to look for his wingman, who went just overhead me. After landing we rang Newcastle Radar to report it . They said they thought there had been a collision as they saw the dots coincide on the radar. We carried on flying for the rest of the day without really thinking much about it. When we got back in the evening the airfield operator told us the RAF pilots had rung up to apologise, they had been doing low level chasing and had drifted off course by 5 miles and cut through our circuit. I woke up in a cold sweat in the middle of that night.

The other time was on final approach to an airfield in a Twin Comanche when my wife yelled lookout and I saw the wheels of a Piper Arrow appear in my windscreen. I dived and banked away and went around for another go.
I was coming in on the normal approach slope and he had gone around the circuit and came in over the top of me without seeing me as I was below his line of sight. He was above me so I didn't see him either.
It didn't help that there were three training aircraft also in the circuit which was only air ground and when I called 2 ahead final to land, he though he was the second and I was behind him.
Didn't sleep much that night either.

Funnily enough when I had in flight problems I didn't have time to worry, just got on with the drills and they became non events.
Wheels stuck half down in the Twin Com on approach to Newcastle.
Complete Loss of Electrics in the Twin Com climbing out of Oxford through Brize.
Complete Loss of Electrics in a Robinson R44 just outside Gloucester.

Scariest thing....

Knowing that one day I'll eventually lose my medical. Hope to be 134 when it happens though...:E

From Wikipedia, which I think copied it verbatim from the Daily Telegraph Obituary for Neville Duke

So, he technically never lost his medical since I don't think he was in hospital enough even for automatic suspension! I think that they were flying a Cherokee 140.

G

I think it's been twice now that I flew an aerobatics sortie on an aircraft, which coincidentally happened to be the last sortie of that aircraft before it went in for a routine check. During those two checks they subsequently found beginning hairline fractures or corrosion in things like engine mounts and rudder hinge brackets. Enough to cause the aircraft to be grounded for weeks while stuff was being re-welded or replaced.

Always makes me wonder what other defects have not yet been found, or are currently developing, while I pull another 4G.

I also had a near miss on climbout. This was one of my first solo flights (might've been my QXC even), in controlled airspace (class D) where a PA28 strayed across the upwind leg, fortunately some 20 feet above my flight path. I sometimes still see the whites of their eyes in my dreams. Then, I was simply too stunned even to file an airprox report. Come to think about it, I don't think I even discussed it with my instructor afterwards.

Yeah reading about the airmisses brings to mind a few. Closest I had was coming off the top of the wire head on with another glider, we both banked right and missed each each other by literally feet. I had another in cct, rule was in RH cct you took the runway, LH you took the grass, I was LH for the grass as I turned base at the same time as another glider who I had in full view. Expecting him to take the runway I flogged on down base for my turn onto the grass thinking 'He's a bit late turning into the runway' when of course he hadn't seen me and was going for my grass.
Rather full deflection of rudder and stick followed.

The duty instructor had to hold me back when I landed...

My old man always taught me when I was learning to drive to treat every road user as a complete idiot, I always apply that to flying now.


Edit: Of course I forgot about the two Tucanos that nearly wiped me out above Newark, but hey, RAF, probably on some urgent mission.

I've had a few near collisions. The most alarming occured while I was flying a night search over our local lake, in my capacity as a firefighter. I had called the Armed Forces to assist, and they had dispatched a C 130, and Cormorant rescue helicopter. I had informed the C-130 pilot of my presence there, and altitude, and he had acknoledged.

While I orbited over our fireboat at 500 feet up, to allow the armed forces aircraft to use their more advanced search equipment, The helicopter flew directly under me, (I had lights on, he did not - later citing the need for darkness to use his night vision!) All I saw were his heat signatures agaist the reflected moonlight on the lake. I have no idea how close he came to me, but I never saw him.

He reported not having seen me, when I called to complain the next day. I reminded him that we were both in uncontrolled airspace, and he is required to display lights for night flying. This was apparently not their normal procedure! They also reported that they were not TCAS equipped - I found that very alarming too!

A pal of mine is a senior captain for BA. As he says, the way we avoid collisions is to shove everybody into a ten mile wide corridor............

A bit of a tangent but would not an admission to hospital with chest pains amount to an immediate grounding?

You forgot the 2nd part: they then spend £££££looooads on an ATC system to keep them separated :)

I've had a few close shaves with traffic; maybe 50m. For me, the general idea is to get away from the circuit with maximum haste, spend the minimum time in it, and if it is busy with half a dozen "in the circuit" I come back 15 mins later.

Enroute, OCAS, I fly at "funny" altitutes like 3300ft, 3700ft, 4300ft, 4700ft, etc, never below 2000ft, always VMC on top if CAS permits (almost never seen any GA up there). There is a massive increase in traffic density below about 1500ft AGL and this is reflected in the UK midair stats.

I also rarely fly at night - something governed by my base's closing time which is too early for most of the year to log night time.

Which is why it's a good idea to include the type and possibly even color of your a/c when approaching a non-towered field. Doesn't necessarily mean the stude in the circuit knows what a Twin Comanche looks like, but he may understand that it's probably not the PA28 in front.

Wise words IO. When I had my single seater homebuilt I had exactly the same philosophy about the circuit, especially coming back in - the view out past the cowling was pretty restricted and the landing could be "exciting." Had to fly a consistent circuit with a curved approach starting from 500ft downwind with the aileron hinge line on the runway to have any hope of success - if the circuit had more than two aircraft in it I went away and came back later.

Nearest miss was tootling along in a PA28 with the LHS pilot on instruments. I saw her flinch and we heard the roar. An F15E passed directly over the top of us with about 100ft separation on exactly the same heading. We were in his blind spot and he was in ours. We never saw a wingman. :\ Just as well we were slightly low. (Her IF is much better now - she's a 50 seat turboprop Captain)

I've had some close calls in the air. In fact, it's happened so many times I think I'm either cursed or blind!

Last time was just coming back towards Lydd via the coast. I decided to do a gentle left turning descent towards Spilsted Farm strip to see if the YAK was there. Suddenly I see a 152 right in front of me and my left turn is cutting his path. It's too late to do any right avoiding maneuver. So I just pushed the yoke forward and dived out from under his path. It was in G and in LARS blind spot - Farnborough drops you east of Beachy Head and Manston don't pick up until you're into Kent - so no way of knowing who it was. I blame myself for that one, though. My scan was too relaxed and I should have spotted him.

Before that it was above Fullerton airport in California at night, which is smack in the middle of the Los Angeles basin. Just cleared the high TV mast there and turned towards LAX (you have to be on your toes here with the varying Bravo airspace so you don't bust) when what looked like a Mooney gave us a haircut just about 50ft above. I don't think he ever saw us. Even though the D airspace resorts to E when the tower is closed, he should have announced on the freq.

On a trip up to Elstree early this summer with great weather, I'm just out of the funnel around Dartford and Stapleford with traffic everywhere. I catch the last glimpses of what looks like a Zodiac just below me. Uncomfortably close. Then as I turn left to join Estree, I manage to not see yet another 152 and I cut right in front of him. My bad. I bet he called me names.

VFR can be hairy at times.:ouch:

I'm scared right now..
I've just come back from the hanger where I was pulling apart my recently aquired LAA type. Out of curiosity I decided to lift a false floor and discovered that the rudder cable was hooked over a bolt, and evidently had been ever since the plane was built. The remarkable thing is that it was the bolt that was worn and not the cable (although I'll be fitting a new one anyway!):\

I thought an F15 would have radar.

The number of people who have never seen an aircraft flight manual.......let alone opend the pages of one!