That doesn't just apply to the english!

I spend quite a large proportion of my foreign flying time in France.Indeed some of my best trips ever have been in France.
I have never had anything but good vibes from the French, and consider the guys at St Omer ( ref. previous post ) as my second family.

I have never yet had to speak French on the radio.

And then this ex-pat comes on saying that he " pushes for prosecution".

Entente cordial at its best....what a nob.
:ugh:

ICAO Chicago convention reference to language:

ICAO | FLS | FAQs


Note:

If we're talking arrogance in flying then let's not forget the near ubiquitous use of French on the R/T by French airline pilots flying into CDG and their ATC colleagues, meaning all foreign airline pilots have not a clue what they are saying

As QDM says. I've always been amazed by the arrogance of French speaking controllers/pilots in busy controlled airspace (France, inc CDG etc, Canada and Africa) where use of exclusive use of French language between pilot & controller causes almost everyone else on frequency a loss of SA. Several reports of incidents at CDG refer to this as a cause but the language barrier remains.

I have very rudimentary French, I have flown in France, I have landed at small French airfields... never really had a problem... but knowing some of the calls help. This website helps... see HERE

To Fright Level, Gorrilla, and all those who keep talking about CDG, Orly or Africa....You are discussing a whole different thing, And no it isnt very proffessional, AF pilots I have contact with definitely agree on this point.

But then isnt very proffessional either is it?


Here we are talking about tiny GA strips where there is no ATC, they are the equivilent of Popham in the UK (except with way less traffic) . Usually there is no AG either, just a common frequency where everyone self announces what they are doing, just like Unicom in the USA. There are plenty of Airfields with ATC in France where they will speak English to you.

Doesn't matter. If your small airfield is busy enough to require an air traffic service, the same problems arise.

The reason the IL76 crew ceased transmitting was probably for two reasons.

1. They nearly crashed and probably were scared.

2. They were p1ssed of with the very poor standard of CDG ATC.

Aviate
Navigate
Communicate in english
Communicate in your native tongue, which for these gents is russian - they undoubtedly would revert to it in times of high stress. Therefore saying nothing was probably better than swearing down the radio in russian.

Too right:

Like the F reg numpty arriving at Duxford in the morning of an Airshow (and you know how busy that can be) a few years ago announcing ' Final for 06' when the rest of us were in the active circuit for 24 (about 4 in the circuit and one on final for 24.)

Seemed like an age before he cottoned on to the fact that the FISO's message inviting him to consider going around was for real.

Did he apologise? Certainly not on frequency he didn't.

Thread creep: do I detect an element of 'holier-than-thou' self righteousness among all these ex-pat Brits branding Brits flying in France as 'arrogant?'

And denying your birthright so as not to be confused as a Brit: Reminds me of my son's ex in-laws (Brits from NI) who always cranked up the Oirish accent to another level when in France to avoid being taken for Brits.

What's wrong with being a Brit?

Oh and before you ask I spent a formative year living/going to school in France many moons ago so have a good grasp of the language.

Cusco:ugh:

<< What's wrong with being a Brit? >>
Taking that as a general query about Brits abroad: Its to do with 'visibility'.
We in UK are familiar with loud Americans (loud in dress, in speech, and in culture or lack of) but we also recognise the less frequent quiet ones.
Same in Europe, some Brits are VERY visible, and some effortlessly merge with the local populace. Sadly we now have a new generation of Brits who are like aviating Alf Garnets... xenophobia with union jack underpants! :bored:

Well, you can always go either to an airport with ATC in english or somewhere where radio is not required.......
Look at windsock, signals square, other traffic, and get on with it.

Jonkil thanks for the francoflyers link.
I especially liked "remise de gaz" (putting the gas back on) for "go around".

The Gorilla's post quotes some ICAO stuff requiring French Language proficiency to be "demonstrated".

Does this mean a test and some stamp in the licence, or is the ability to speak French and understand and use the crib sheet enough, as as been suggested here?

In France there is usually enormous tolerance toward those whose "face fits", but if they wanted to throw the book at you for some reason, what is the requirement?

skydriller said Fright Level, Gorrilla, and all those who keep talking about CDG, Orly or Africa....You are discussing a whole different thing

I was simply countering the OP's post that said "I am sorry to say that the greatest danger one is faced with are arrogant Brits".

I am disagreeing. As a regular visitor to France (on a commercial & private basis), the French pose a bigger risk to life by refusing to speak the international language of aviation. This is more arrogant and dangerous than the risk glasairflyer attaches to les rosbifs turning up at a local field sans parlez Francais.

Arrogant, Moi? The next time one lands in France offer to pay by cake!:\

Why does a xenophobic brit wear union jack underpants? seems like total disrespect for the national emblem to me.....

It says english or the language used by the station on the ground. This differs from the requirements of the ATCO, if you read it carefully.

Thanks! You are right, I hadn't read it properly.

Fright Level, I've been to other airfields in France too. Not just the big ones. Using CDG as an example has relevance. It is scarily busy and therefore the problems are magnified.

Xenophobia/Arrogance
 

Many moons ago, I was 20 minutes astern of my Flight Commander, who spoke fluent French, en route Malta to Ice Station Kilo. Having been listening out on the appropriate French ATC freq, and having heard several transmissions 'en Français,' approaching St Tropez the boss made his initial report in impeccable French. The snotty reply from French ATC?

"RAFAIR XYZ, today on ze airways, we speak Eengleesh!"

Chauvin was a Frenchman, and is still alive and well in 'La Republique.'

http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/francais.gif

Arrogance
 

"Do airline pilots who fly to dozens of different countries have to be able to speak in dozens of different languages" :confused:

Austerwobbler

No, they speak English, as do the ATCOs.

ATC english proficiency is highly variable though, and in many places (even in Europe) is a total joke.

The important point however is that, at an international airport, while ATC should speak English, not a single other person needs to. So if you try to e.g. contact the operations office regarding PPR, etc, this can sometimes be tricky.