GPS for PPL use.
 

GPS for PPL use.

I am looking to buy a GPS just as a backup. As I plan on doing quite a lot of flying across Europe.

At the moment I am considering The Garmin 196.

I would greatly appreciate your feedback on this matter.

Many Thanks

Nick

Once you have used a 296 you would never want a 196.
You can have mine for £500

Me? The Garmin eTrex Euro (simplest of the range, about 100-130 euros these days), data cable, serial to USB converter, OziExplorer with self-scanned Jeppesen maps on the laptop. I already had this setup before I started flying and it still serves me well.

High end would be a Garmin 496 or 696. Or anything in between. I also heard good stories about Avmap.

What's more important is that you know the device inside out, and know the limitations of your device. And always have a backup plan if the device fails.

I use a Garmin 296. I love it, and would recommend it to anyone. I use it for primary navigation flying around Europe, with a flightplanned chart as secondary. I also use it on my flying holidays in the US, as a backup to the panel mounted GPS!

In the Cessnas that I tour in, the yoke mount is perfect, and I suggest it.

Use the GPS for primary nav not back up. To avoid getting lost, rely on the mark one eyeball for back up only.........

Hello

I've heard a lot from people of the Navigo V2 as a cheap GPS, with CAA map installed...
Its a good device to use as a first GPS as it goes well with the CAA map as a back up.

I've considered it myself but i'm a little unsure how to install the CAA map on the Navigo.....

Perhaps the key to understanding how this might be possible is knowing that the Navigo V2 is simply a pocket PC with a GPS built in. It runs Windows CE.NET v5. So presumably it is then possible to install a more aviation orientated GPS mapping program like NavGPS Pro, Flitesoft Express or how about something like PCAvionics Mountainscope?

That's note QUITE true.

WinCE is a subset of PocketPC (known as Windows Mobile since 2005 or so).

Stuff designed to run on Windows Mobile or PocketPC will not necessarily run on a WinCE device, as WinCe does not have all the devices and libraries that are in Windows Mobile or PocketPC.

In particular the installation method for Windows Mobile is generally using ActiveSync which does not exist on WinCE devices. This means that you usually have to find another way of installing the software.

But I do understand that Memory Map will run on WinCE, and there are plenty of guides around showing you have to set it up.

dp

The Navigo runs a Win CE.NET which supports ActiveSync, plenty of so called 'hacking' sites on how to do it. In most cases simply a case of downloading some software and running it. It might be worth noting that Windows Mobile v5 IS Win CE v5.

Steps include getting ActiveSync to run, in fact the ActiveSync installer is actually on the Navigo!

Getting the desktop to run by default, instead of Navigo's menu system.
Then you can pretty much install what you want.

But don't take my word for it, go HERE and see for yourself. :ok:

I ordered the cheapest Garmin GPS from pooleys I think, think i was the little grey handheld one that costs 130quid...

Anyway 2 days later the GPS arrives but they accidentally sent the 700quid Garmin 296!!!!

Needless to say I never phoned them to tellthem and thats the one thing I have gotten out of aviation lol.

Anybody have views on the kind of GPS that uses CAA half mil charts such as the new Airbox devices?

I'm the market for a GPS and was leaning towards the 296 before I saw the Airbox Freedom Clarity. Seems great to be able to cross check traditional navigation with the GPS using the same chart. But it doesn't have the features of the Garmin and is almost the same price.

Lunchmaster

AV8OR
 

Had my 196 now for many years and its given very good service, as have Garmin who kindly provided a new mount free of charge when mine was liberated from a parked airplane

Buy the best you can afford and plan to stick with it for as long as possible. I have no plans to swap my 196 so should end up getting good vfm

Tut tut
 

I imagine Pooleys will be checking their database of sales right about now.................

GPS
 

The Bendix Skymap is the best you can buy. Its one of only a very few that actually tell you where you are in English: thats very good for position reports. You can buy them new or on ebay and you can rack mount them or yoke mount them.

Airbox gives positional reporting too

I have a 296 and it's fine. Nothing to rave about but fine. Accessing many of the functions can be a bit of a faff but they are all there. However I've used my friends (two of them!) Skymaps and they are soooo much better. Yes it is an old unit and Bendix should be shot for not developing it further - if the AV8 works the same way it would be my choice.

Get on ebay!

Buy an HP Ipaq 2750 or something of that ilk. I recently bought one for just over £60 including p&p. It has wireless internet access so I can file flight plans online, get weather etc at airfields with wifi access. Le Touquet a prime example.

Buy a 'Bluenext' bluetooth GPS and pair it with said Ipaq. Battery lasts for ever, reception is within seconds and s far mine has been flawless!! Amazon £35.

Get 'Memory Map.' Think they do EU charts for about £40. No ambiguity when navigating with a chart in the cockpit aswell. I've found it to be fantastic! Flew with a friend with a Garmin 196 and it spent most of its time losing its signal and generally I found the screen to be poor whilst my Ipaq with bluetooth performed flawlessly.

nadders.

Does anyone have for sale gimble mount for a Colour Skymap?

You may well live to regret that. Aviation has a nasty habit of getting even. Maybe it's not too late to make that phone call?

The appropriate charge would be Theft under S(1) of the 1968 Act.

Anyone got this system, looks to tick all the relevant boxes, any opinions?

States for VFR use. What makes this so suited to VFR whilst other units do not specify, could this also be a disadvantage?

GPS | AirBox | Airbox Foresight Visual Flight Information System

I'm keen to hear more views on the Airbox if any has bought one. So far I've heard mixed reviews.

Here we go again :)

If you want a GPS as a backup, don't bother. Using one as a backup is a bit like driving a Vauxhall Viva, towing a brand new BMW just in case the Viva breaks down.

If you want to use a GPS properly, you need to get onw with the biggest moving map you can afford. Situational awareness comes from the moving map.

IO, shhhhh ... I'm really hopeful that the Meldrews won't notice !

I have an Avmap EKP iv on the yoke and also a 5" screen running memory map and I find it really allows me more time looking out the window

incoming

I've had a navigo. quite a few pocket PC's (mio's, ipaq's XDA's etc) running pocket FMS & memorymap, Lowrance's, Asus PC's, garmins (96C, 196, 295, 296)...... blah blah blah.

For functionality, reliability, ease of use in the air, and shear volume of information, if you can afford it I'd go for a 296 (and install cubs VRP database) or a 96C (40h on 2 AA's, superb screen in daylight, built in 128mb and waterproof)

If it's really just for backup purposes, one more option is to get a Windows Mobile communicator with GPS. Not very convenient to use but versatile and infinitely tinkerable. In a 180 g device, you can have not only a GPS navigator, but also a cellphone, a camera, an organiser, a web browser, etc.

I've just had an AV80R delivered from Harry's and having a play so far on the ground (as the wx won't let me use it in anger), it seems to be the business for a no-nonsense GPS.

The touchscreen is great - you can drag the map around, tap on airspace, obstacles, airfields etc and get more info, MATZ & VRPs all seem to be there (for my local area anyway), and the topo map/profile view looks pretty handy. The update on the website adds extended runway centerlines, and a few other goodies.

Works great as a Car satnav too. Also plays movies/sound/ebooks (although what use that'll be I dunno, except for occupying the nipper on a long car drive).

Standard USB connection, and SD card for storage. Charges off the USB port too, which is nice.

Battery life with the standard battery is about 1.5 hours which is a bit low, but standard nokia battery so easy and cheap to get a bigger one.

Comes with suction mount, yoke mount, usb cable, headphones, AC adapter (UK & Euro pins).

Registered on the Bendix site a few hours back and got my maps update confirmation through - aside from that £35 for an update (or you can get a sub).

Went for the AV80R in preference to the Clarity - CAA charts aren't vector so they pixelate when zooming, no usb/standard port, no car nav (not a biggy but nice to have), no on-map topo.

So far so good. Hoping to head to the St Omer fly in around the 12, so will be comparing it with a 296 and 250XL which are coming too.

Personally I'd go for the Bendix stuff over the cheaper Garmins any day of the week. The 196 is pretty awful, and I don't particularly rate the 296 either. The SkyMap 3 and AV8OR are both superior units for clarity of reference and features IMHO. The 496 and newer are pretty tidy, but very expensive.

I don't understand what is meant by the CAA charts pixelating. How far do you really need to zoom?! Now if only someone had figured out how to get the CAA VFR charts up and running on the iPhone.... :E

The charts used in the Clarity are of a fixed resolution. At that specific resolution, they're nice and sharp, but you don't get much on the screen. If you want to zoom out (or in for detail etc), they become blurry as they're rescaled/resized as opposed to vector maps which scale correctly with no loss of resolution.

Think of it as zooming in on a cell phone photo. Looks ok on the phone, but zoomed in on a PC monitor it goes horribly blocky.

Colours are great, but is the 296 as readable as the 196, say under a bubble canopy, in bright sunlight and with sunglasses on? If anyone has made the comparison, I'd be happy to hear.

you're right Slopey, except that the Airbox software uses four of these "fixed resolution" tiles set at different scales for each section of map.

The user can zoom in and out from these giving 9 levels of zoom in total with minimal break up of image.

Have to disagree about the wonderfulness of the Skymap - there was one of these in an RV6 I part-owned for a couple of years.

3 things - incredibly slow screen updates (up to 5 secs to zoom in/out, which is a long time at 150 knots)

the planned route is a thick purple line, and controlled airspace is... a thick purple line

too many button presses to do almost anything, in particular re-establish flight plan after turning the unit off (eg to re-fuel)

What I DID like though was the GPS generated position reference - so with no effort I could tell ATC "5 miles south of ..."

I agree, if Bendix had updated it, it would be much better, and somewhat worth the inflated price.

"What I DID like though was the GPS generated position reference - so with no effort I could tell ATC 5 miles south of ..."

You can do that with the 296.

Also, I fly a Jab with a clear roof and my friend flies a Shadow. We both have a 296 and can read the screen ok. The 196's LCD is probably clearer in sunlight, (if you can make out the different grey scalling for airspace with direct sunlight on it).
Having colour to define airspace makes up 10 fold for any clarity issues on the LCD compared to the 196.

The best GPS in strong direct sunlight (colour or B/W) is the Garmin 96C, Go check one out. Really is superb.

I bought the GARMIN 495. I think it is worth the extra money over the 296, because the processor is so much faster than 296. Everything just works better on this unit.

Good point about the iPhone Shunter, although the Airbox app at £9.99 is well worth a look. Basic, but has all the UK airfields, can navigate to the nearest airfield and gives you basic heading, altitude distance and time to destination info. A very worthwhile backup.

I love my Garmin 96c. Compact and powerful.

I bought Airbox Clarity a couple of days ago. I'm a new PPL and have only tried it in air once. Really liked the CAA chart with visual airspace warnings and relative positions to towns/airfields etc.

I was told that GPS is good as a "backup" to your dead reckoning, probably because I just took the step from student to pilot, but after 5 minutes usage the map and plog went to to the back seat and the gps became my main device for navgation and plog/chart took the role of backup :)

The clarity is relatively cheap for what you get, but I can see that chart upgrades (other countries than uk) will add to the cost. The battery life is fairly short but can be boosted by an external battery booster (not necessarely an expensive airbox one).

Typing in letters for user defined waypoints etc. is a bit crappy. It's touch screen but it doesn't overlay a keybord. You have to step through the whole alphabet to get to the characters you want. hopefully this fiddly process will change in a later software version.

:ok:Garmin 55AVD. Had it for years, scared to try anything else!