Dead Stick Takeoff
 

Check out this perfectly legal use of an LSA in the states, anyone up for a Ben Nevis fly in ?

4 Yorkshiremen.
 

Only if we can take off uphill deadstick in the snow......
Luxury. . . .

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

wow, not sure if he is barking or a genius but very entertaining, his other clips are as well.

Bet you could do that at Oxenhope on a windy day ;-)

Hope I can get my Escapade to half what he does in the highlander when I have finnished it.

Highlander is a USA bush version of the UK Escapade.

Mark
G-POZA

I guess many on here have flown a Hang Glider (not a paraglider) - for those that have not that vid is totally representative of a HG take off but about 50% faster.

The wind noise is the same as is the 'off a cliff' sensation (in nil wind conditions).

The way the sight picture works out is the same but I suspect his glide ratio is somewhat less than a HG (13:1 ish on HG).

Regards

Cron

I first saw that video a few months ago. This guy is my new hero.

-- IFMU

Mmmm...Can't make my mind up if that was clever or stupid....Good though.

No need to decide, he's clearly both.

Not the most responsible thing not to check 'take off path' beforehand.
I guess pushing it down was his way of 'safety improvement'. Let's hope no hikers around the bottom of the hill.

Cubs etc have reasonable glide ratio and low stall speeds, low wing loading, so why not? Paragliding pilots do so as a standard. So do hang gliders. Unless car winched or with engine harness or trike.

Bloody stupid if you ask me.

As Hyperborean said, just because you [I]can[i/] doesn't mean you should. He was committed from a few seconds into the roll with no plan 'B'. If anything had slowed the roll he'd have had nowhere else to go with the only upside being that there was little chance of him taking anyone else with him if it all went wrong. Having spent several years as a bush pilot I've seen the results of people 'experimenting' and none of them were pretty.

The man's an idiot.

If this had been a glider bungie launch, would anyone have commented?

I did mention he was my new hero. I also agree he's barking and a genius took, with a little idiot thrown in for good measure.

But, is it really as dangerous as it might seem, though it may be a little sporty for some (like my own) tastes? No plan B? What about an engine start?

If I was him, I would not have done a deadstick take off right away. Would have been a careful build up, taking off with partial power, taking off at idle, and seeing how much margin you have. This is if you can get over the fact that just landing on top of a mountain like that is nuts period. I'd never do it. I'm afraid of heights.

-- IFMU

A bit off-topic, but does anyone know why the phrase is "dead stick" rather than "dead lever" (or "dead plunger" on a Cessna)?

For some reason I always initially think of dead stick meaning the control stick (or yoke) is shot. Maybe sounds even more exciting and dangerous in the bar?

Cheers,

Gareth.

Done before
 

If you look at the sand bar he laneded on, you can see he has done it before there are tracks. Also, he could have started the engine if things went badly.

Dead stick probably refers to the dead feeling in the stick with no engine, no P-factor etc.

I think you will find it actually refers to the piece of wood (though many now are made of metal) that normally wizzes round at the front!:hmm:

He is purely tapping into potential energy much in the same way as a glider instead of using his engine.

Bob Hoover was well known for his displays switching off his engines in a commander twin and flying a loop engine out to a landing.

In the right hands not that dangerous

Pace

A bungee launched glider is designed to do that.

This guy had nowhere to go if it had gone wrong on the roll. A soft patch would have slowed him with the potential to hit that farking great rock and I don't care how well he knows his aircraft he'd NOT have been able to start the engine in time.

Bloody stupid.

I agree, if he'd have got it all wrong, and survived, I suppose he would expect emergency services to rescue him, at great cost. I put him in the same category as base jumpers and the like. They think of nothing else than an adrenalin rush. That's not what flying is all about.

Not for you, clearly. Everyone's different.

There sure are some miserable old gits in aviation. He clearly has intimate knowledge of the surrounding terrain and knows his aircraft. I don't see why anyone should have a problem with this chap using the laws of physics to his advantage.

Miserable old gits. What, as in old pilots? Well you know what they say about those don't you?

As others have said this stunt had no escape procedure if the take-off roll had gone wrong. The was nowhere to go but that rock. Gross stupidity.

most take off rolls have a point where if it goes wrong the result is not going to be good. Almost anywhere between "rotate" and actually clearing the airfield fence is likely to be tricky. At least there was no reliance on the engine to keep supplying the motive force in this case. Gravity is pretty reliable, never been known to fail without warning, always gives 100%.

My only concern with this is the distance to the nearest civilisation, if he cocks up the landing and has to walk back..........

R6A

He probably only filmed that rock for effect. It could have been well out of his path.

Having the engine off means less airflow over the elevators and reduced pitch authority. Being in a taildragger, rolling down 'rough as f---' earth, covered in rocks, massive divots and vegetation, the risk of nosing over seemed rather too large for comfort. Nose over on a 1:1 slope dropping off a mountainside and you'll have a really bad day.

Impressive, ballsy, eye opening, 'a bit of a laugh' etc...YES.
Airmanship, sound judgement, responsible, safe....NO.

Funny how there are always a few who accuse those who question this sort of flying as being miserable old fuddy-duddies. However, when you get into an aeroplane as pax, do you want your pilot to be some balls-out, adrenaline junkie, risk taking, barnstorming cowboy. No, thought not.

Thought most of the RedBull air racing pilots fitted that category :) We need some colour in this grey old world of ours

Pace

I agree that this world needs a bit of colour, but I suspect the Red Bull pilots are some of the most precise, safety-concious guys out there. I get the feeling that the bloke in the video falls more into the flying circus category, but I could be wrong - maybe he is Bob Hoover!

Miserable, miserable gits. Someone does something interesting and skillful and well thought out and all you can do is whinge that it's stupid and dangerous. If the only stuff we had to discuss on these forums was your flights in PA28s wearing Hi-Vis jackets then it would all be a little dull, wouldn't it?

Torque

You obviously missed the video of one of them beating up a control tower posted in these threads :)

I am sure this guys antics were also precise as he did some pretty precise stuff even to an engine out landing.

While not something I would do myself or even have the guts to do I must admit to secretely thinking " good on you ".

We are an overregulated finger pointing society and for me its a breath of fresh air to see someone buck the sytem now and again and IMO healthy too :)

Pace

Of course, this is the states. I don't think he bucked the system. If something had gone wrong they might have gotten him on a reckless charge, but otherwise I don't think it is illegal. There are pilots who do things that are beyond my comfort level. As long as I'm not in the airplane with them, and they aren't over my house (or anybody's) it is not totally irresponsible. If his stunt had gone awry he would have hurt nobody but himself.

-- IFMU

And of course, the rescue services plus the investigation afterwards doesn't matter eh?

Of course they matter! That's my tax dollars at work. Is that dead stick takeoff more crazy than some of the serious rock climbs people do, or the guys whitewater rafting out west? What about the recreational guys fishing offshore? Some of those folks get in trouble and need rescue, too. Should we keep everybody home and safe? I hope I never see the day. If they go after his freedom to do a deadstick takeoff out in the boonies, my freedoms are not far behind, even if my middle age has taken some of the edge off my risky behaviour.

I do have to admit, though, that I'm not faultless when it comes to risk taking. I did slip a C172 with flaps once...

-- IFMU

Shameful := , I have to admit doing the same :) Mind you, there is nothing in the POH to say you can't.

What has the world come to - are our lives so comfortably dull that we have to point and decry anyone who takes a few risks?

We don't know how well thought out this was - it could range from suicidally stupid to really quite mundane, depending on the experience of said chappie, and his planning and forethought.

In any case, I'm sure that the tax dollars we pay (for example) into healthcare for the afflicted idiots who smoke themselves into an early grave are far more than those inflicted on us by the few who get up to this sort of thing - I reckon we get far more value for money out of the nutters than the smokers :E

On a related, I have heard legend of gliders doing touch'n'goes on a ridgetop field - dive in on the spoilers, touch, close spoilers, and float off the end into the ridge lift, climb out, rinse and repeat.

(P.S. You wouldn't catch me doing it mind you....)

Reading the pro's and con's, I find myself sitting on the fence now. I can appreciate both sides of the discussion, well, most of them anyway.

They do that over here too. Maybe we need a deadstick T&G thread!

-- IFMU

Uncle Jay said it, right there!

-So-much for "skilled,sitationally-aware pilots "

IFMU also raises the obvious:-
repeat performance for the purpose of making this very entertaining video.

Obviously a very experienced user of this machine and it's pretty self-evident that he's very carefully assessed any risk before attempting what at first appears to be a hairy stunt.......given the steepness of the slope, he'd have great difficulty NOT taking -off (unless the wheels ripped-off :\. Have a look on you tube and there's a rigid-wing "hang-glider that takes off in the wind, from a virtually flat plateau. suppose that's reckless, dangerous etc. as well?

To put it another way if it had been a glider pushed over the edge of the slope using the slope as a launch ramp no body would blink an eyelid.

A powered aircraft with a stopped prop looks dramatic but the principals are the same :)

Pace

I want a go.
And if I get a go the nay-sayers can beat me with sticks as much as they like for when I'm in my dotage in my rocking chair I want to be able to say I did everything in life that I wanted to.
(actually, for reasons stated above I'll probably never make it to a rocking chair).

And what makes you think he didnt?