Nah, he was talking about sitting at the hold on the ground. I went into Elstree the other day to pick up Drauk and the radio guy was as miserable as sin as ever. If he hates the job that much why not go and get another??

We have Pilot Operated lights at our place and they cost me a beer to run. Came back from Le Touquet last night(twice in 2 days now!) airways in the dark and very comforting to know there were no restrictions.

I do seem to recall that LFAT made a charge for putting on the lights as well?

More likely holding short at the runway threshold and watching the hobbs tick away at £3 per minute.

So far, touch wood, I've had no problems with the Elstree bunch, except when I called them 'Elstree Radio' and was sharply reminded they were 'Elstree Information'.

But surely not Elstree Radar.......!

Yes it was holding on the Bravo taxi way for 26. It was in a well known Cherokee six from Turweston and positioning back there, at over £190.00/hr waiting isn't what you want to be doing too much of.:ugh: Who remembers Geofrey with his Windsock colour trousers? It was rumoured he could drown out the transmission from Capital Radio's mast on long final for 26! Bose, I am not surprised to hear they are still "miserable as sin" there! Trouble is, its very handy for a lot of my friends:( :( So I need to keep them happy and comply with their silly requirements.

Just thought of another money spinner for UK aviation

How about we have telescopic windsocks and if you want to use them they have to be switched on and extended ......

No wait, we could also hide the numbers on the runway and only illuminate them for a fee.....

Gosh there is no end to this how about a take off fee ?......

Yes I am being ironic but it is absolutely daft to charge for landing lights, how mean can you get !:\

Who's side are you on!! dont give them ideas! :oh:

At an airfield I visit from time to time, the landing fee has remained static. They have just put in runway lighting, but kept the landing fee the same.

However, they make a small additional charge for the lights when used.

So are you suggesting that day-time VFR pilots should pay a higher landing fee to include the facility of runway lights for the few who actually use them?

Yes, when spread across the totality of landings, the increase in the landing fee would be small, but this is a service for the few, and the maintenance of the lights is related to the usage - much the same as the hourly rates we calculate on our group-owned aircraft.

Sounds to me that some of you want your facilities paid for by others :=

Robin

I think that this type of issue goes quite deep and relates to "attitude"

There are national stereotypical attitudes that are so ingrained we may not even see them until we experience another attitude that works equally well or better hence the posts relating to the attitude to this type of thing in other countries.

If you had to pay a man to wind a crank handle and stay up all night in the freezing rain until the last aircraft landed then yes we might want to chip in and buy him a pint or two for his efforts however we are talking about pilot controlled lighting which uses minimal electrons and increases safety....

It's laughable that we have an attitude where every single penny has to be accounted for and paid only by those who benefit.....lets be honest what we really have is a fixed market with a number of monopoly players charging what they think they can get away with because nobody challenges them (or if they do they are unfarly disadvantaged).

I had a situation recently where the landing fees depended on who the pilot was X pounds for Mr Bloody popular and 2.5 times that amount for anyone else (no he doesn't own the airfield either). Beggars belief but I think that this kind of unequal and unnecessary pricing is unethical and illegal - CAA rules as they stand seem to favour existing monopoly operators who like the system as it stands and if you don't like it tough luck.

Rant over !:{

That's an interesting viewpoint. The Mode S issue is being fought on the basis of 'beneficiary pays'

And knowing someone who runs an airfield, they do take the view that everything needs to be accounted for, as does anyone trying to run a business. Like all businesses, the choices they make are down to them, and, yes, some are money-grabbers.

But if they don't cover their costs, and make enough profit to make it worthwhile, we won't have the facilities we need. Forums like this are helpful in pointing out those places where we are being taken to the cleaners and those who are good value.

Obviously, we'll all go to the good value ones, won't we?

Lucy Lastic

Yes we should vote with our "wheels" but in a monopoly situation it is a bit more difficult to do that.

My point was that there are similar business operators in other countries who have refreshingly different attitudes, how else would you get free coffee if everything must be paid for by the beneficiary to the nearest penny ?

As long as the UK regulations favour this cosy monopoly system then we won't have the choice that we should have.

Come on EASA, shake up the system a bit and make things a bit fairer for us flyers.

Every time i drive past Stapleford at night on the M25, the runway lights are on, although i never see any aircraft in the circuit. Does this mean that they do a lot of night flying, or does it mean that they never turn them off. Their leccy bill must be HUGE:(

Our club landed at LFAT and we where charged 44 Euros for the lights. We landed and shutdown 6 minutes before offical night, but as we got to the counter after offical night, we where charged.

SCUBAWASP

Let me guess......You paid up without causing too much fuss ?

:hmm:

Yes, at first I thought it was for more then one club aircraft. They did offer us two free landing fees (to be used during December).

Charges
 

My favourite was as I recall XXXX some years ago when a Shadow landed and left by trailer. Guy pays his landing fees and all looks fine. Some months later owner get HUGE bill for parking as the computer said he was still there! Nobody actually looked. Dunno if it went to court or not but too many companies only want a cheque. Any letter you write is ignored and they just send out another "standard" letter.

Landing fees
 

If you object to huge landing fees they maybe you should think about grass strip flying. Hunsdon charge about 3 quid and do excellent bacon butties. Colney make no charge at all but do check the website for no fly zones.
There are quite a few strips around and one has a Yak 50 using it so if you can't land on that then maybe a bit of practice is in order. :{ :{

At EGNM we dont pay any extra for the lights. They are turned on when needed or requested and no extra fee. This is the way that it should be, yes, they need to be maintained etc, but at the end of the day, that is why we pay the landing fee.