Is this possible?
 

Hi,

It occured to me the other day that as I am doing quite a bit of flying and there are invariably spare seats it might be a good idea to take some less fortunate or disadvantaged people along too!

Now, I know there are legalities concerning accepting money for flying but I don't want to receive any payments - money or in kind. I was thinking of maybe on the odd occasion taking people, young or old, on flights lasting an hour or so of the local area.

I know it might sound strange but i find it so rewarding to take someone flying who really has a keen intrest but maybe never had the chance or couldn't afford it. I've approcahed my local radio station about this and they're having a think about it at their end to see if it is something they could assist with.

My question is do any of you guys have any suggestions or opinions on this? It's a tentative enquiry at the moment and I don't doubt there are pittfalls and legalities but has anybody, or does anybody know of anyone, who has done such a thing! Any advice thoughts or suggestions would be useful. An important point is that I rent an aircraft from a flying school and obviously I'd have to run any ideas past them beforehand!

Thanks in advance,

Dan

Hi Dan

I had a similar post to yours, about a year ago, before I started the PPL. My idea was to do the same, but ask for money. Being extremely uneducated on the subject of course! I was going to post adverts round my university to see if anyone was interested in 'local flights' - or pleasure flights if you like. The thing is, as you know, you can take no profit at all, and must pay no less than the equal share of the flight. That is the money side of things, and unless things have changed, I would be careful. With regards to the advertising though, I think this is a different matter. I am not too sure on this one, so hopefully someone else can shed a light. I do know though, that the CAA come down heavily on people who break the rules, especially in this department.

Best of luck

Maz :ok:

There is a similar thread here

For completeness, you might consider adding your post to that thread. Or perhaps BRL would merge the thread?

dp

I was under the impression that advertising for passengers was illegal, other than on the flying club notice board. (Although I might have that wrong, and it might only be illegal to advertise for cost-share passengers and not free passengers.)

I've not heard anything to the effect that there's a problem with word of mouth.

Gert:

This is a flying "club" notice board, is it not?

Go read Article 130 of the ANO
A strict interpretation of this means an Instructor breaks the law if he advertises a cost sharing jaunt to Le Touquet in his flying club and an owner or part owner breaks the law if he does likewise.

Even if you do it for free, don't forget that if you have a mishap, the families of the passengers will sue your remaining family to the end of the earth......even if you get them to sign a disclaimer.

I wouldn't bother myself, if anyone asks to come flying with me, then thats fine, I wouldn't advertise my services however....

Cheers

Provided you receive no payment from the passengers -- strictly speaking, provided no one pays anyone else for them to be carried -- then you're fine from the point of view of aviation law.

The part of Art 130 that Mike quotes contains the conditions under which you can receive such a payment.

As others point out, there may be issues of liability to think about, as well.

Well, I could be wrong, but it sounds as though Dan proposes to pay all of the costs of the flights (which he would pay anyway, if flying solo), and the pax would ride for free. If that is correct, then there doesn't seem to be any particular legal complication or restriction.

You might get some useful advice from the EAA's Young Eagles programme.

It's just my opinion but to be honest, and no matter how honourable your intentions, I'd steer well clear of it. It's exactly the sort of thing that can come back and bite you on the bum either in the form of a ‘little chat’ with the CAA or an ambulance-chasing lawyer in the unlikely event of a prang! Crazy, I know but sadly it’s the world we live in.

Better, perhaps to make it an ‘official charity flight’ (see here) at least, then you’re covered from any trouble from the CAA if not from the damn lawyers! :ugh:

BH

MLS & Bookworm are quite right, I was responding more to Maz's idea of a contribution.

I like to take people along for the ride but it can be an issue if the person is unaware of the risk. If you take someone on a potentially hazardous activity you have a duty of care. Just look at the canoeing and hill walking incidents that have occurred within education.

While you can to an extent cover yourself with a "blood chit" signed by the passenger acknowledging that he understands the risks and will not hold you responsible it is impossible in law to cover yourself for negligence. Let's say you fail to carry out some pre-flight check and have an EFATO during which your passenger is injured and cannot work. His lawyer argues that your failure to drain the tank properly was negligent. The Court agrees and bingo your blood chit is worthless.

Not saying one should not do it, just that you should be aware of the potential for problems.

MLS-12D,

You're quite right and infact you've reminded me of the programme that I intended to refer to here. That is effectively exactly what I was enquiring on originally, not just confined to youngsters but anybody really.

I'm grateful for all your replies here guys. I'll keep you posted on how it goes but I'll be calling the CAA later today to see if they can advise.

much appreciated, thanks.

Dan

This is correct; I don't believe that any document, no matter how carefully drafted, can ever be regarded as a completely impenetrable sheild against all civil liability.

That said, even a poorly-worded document provides some argument that the passenger has voluntarily accepted the risk, which may deter some claims and would provide leverage for settlement negotiations in others. So, it's not a bad idea to require all pax to sign one, which should then be kept in a safe place (on the ground, not in the aicrcraft).

These sort of insulting comments are offensive and needlessly provocative.

Sincere apologies for any offence caused, my old darling.

BH

No worries, BH. ;)