The Bb is still down.
It is quite surprising in this day and age that the PFA can't find someone with the knowledge and aptitude to run their Bb.

The last rally was lovely mainly I think because of the weather and the great Kemble bar but it did seem to lack something I'll call focus.

Perhaps the same could be said of the PFA themselves at present.

Err, isn't that because it's an association rather than a private company or 3rd world dictatorship?

G

Mr Wolfie,

I have sent you a private message with the list of approved types that you were after. I asked Monday night and it was waiting for me tonight.
The Web site will be updated with this info shortly I am told

lots of interesting aircraft to choose from!

If they're so kack at running there own site can't we get Big Red L to allow a PFA forum here?

Cubflyer- many thanks - however I also received an email from Francis Donaldson on Tuesday with the current list (and an apology for the 5 week wait).:bored:

As you say there are some interesting designs listed and a few surprises there too. For example, contrary to what it says in the magazine ads placed by the UK Zenair rep, the Zenair Zodiac XL is not yet fully accepted (nor is the Vans RV9). Both are "cleared to build" though.

Even more interesting are the inclusion on the list of those types that were registered with the PFA but then abondoned before acceptance - a 5/6 scale Mosquito anyone??:ok:

Mr. W

Glad you got the list Mr W. dont know about the Zenair CH601XL clearance, I think one is flying, but maybe all the test flights arent completed yet. As far as the RV-9 is concerened, it wont be approved yet because a UK built example hasnt flown and gone through the PFA test program. I believe several are getting close, one Wilksch diesel powered.

The PFA may be an association, they have a "duty of care" to their members.

They are providing a service and being paid for it so we can expect the Ass to be run in a professional maner.

My children's School website and School magazine are run better totally by the pupils.

Anyway "Pink Headsets" are much more important!

If only that could extend to education! Whenever there's a pfa fly-in to an aerodrome with ATC all hell breaks loose as the PFAers do exactly as they please, ignore instructions and ignore the 'readback list':E

I think you will find thats a very small minority of pfa ers

not my experience at flyins. some times the ATC make such a mess they should just let the pilots sort themselves out.

I would like to think so, but it would require me to accept i only come across the same small minority every time!

In my experience the mess usually results from

An even more flexible approach is often required to accomodate the PFAers, but the nature of ATC requires some CONTROL be retained, if only so there is someone to blame when they fly in to each other. :hmm:

Drifting a bit off topic here, but what about the fly-in at a full ATC airfield, and then refuse permission to those with crap RT, that might buck a few ideas up. as it does seem that standards are collapsing.

I think that the slighting of certain groups of aviators or aviation professionals is counterproductive to having a serious discussion about the PFA.

If you have specific experiences by all means share them so that they can be debated in a constructive manner. Generalising as people have been doing in the last few posts is not helpful and will only result in a slanging match, achieving zilch.

Of course just my opinion,

;)

FD

i did generalise about the group of flyers concerned, which was unfair to any members of that group that are not guilty and i look forward to them proving me wrong.

I thought i was quite specific about my experiences with them. Surely you don't expect me to note their callsigns and list them here:E

Mister Perfection,
Just because you hear bad radio work or are otherwise offended by someone who is not as good as you are, do not assume that (a) he is a member of the PFA or, (b) that he would be any better if he wasn't a member of the PFA.
The PFA does not train any pilots.
Most PFA Fly-ins and the Rally in particular, are not restricted to PFA Members.

Mike W

GDMT,

The pile of CAS infringements after the PFA Rallye makes for depressing reading.

However I am pretty sure that this is due to a combination of the following:

1. Complex airspace structure.
2. Attendance by a large proportion of people that may be fly relatively few hours per year.
3. The lack of a dedicated facility to give these people assistance when things start to go wrong.

But not necessarily linked to being a paid up member of the association.

Now before all and sundry stumble over each other to point out that any competent PPL should be able to read the AICs and navigate properly (all things I agree with entirely) would the conclusion not have to be that the facts bear out that there is an issue which needs addressing in a proactive and creative way. May be necessitating some lateral thinking?

FD

Skylark hit the nail on the head ...

As flyer ... I certainly admit to not being the best at ATC and radio procedures. I'm not terrible though and can certainly navigate as well if not better than many. I've predominantly flown PFA aircraft and been in the PFA for nearly 20 years. However, I've also flown under the asepsis of the CAA (seem to remember being trained the CAA way like most here), BGA, and BMAA ... so which "bit" of me is the not so good bit?

Drop the "them and us" and realise that "ALL" flyers (and ATC) have their good and bad moments. If you don't think that's you ... don't worry, it will be one day!!!

SS

Flyin'Dutch' hit the nail on the head!

It's not about comparing others to one's own level of competence, but to the recognised level of competence required to aviate.

Skylark4 seems to be the only one making assumptions!

If the environment looks to complex for an individual they should seek guidance at the planning stage, and then decide if they're up to it.

I know I'm going to get slagged off seriously here but... As a PFA member I'm worried that the rally has become a God that must be worshipped!! That money has to be poured in for no profit each year and it's weakening the ability of the PFA to fight it's corner with Europe, Airfield haters, etc. I was at Kemble last year and it was good but.. Would I like the PFA to be a strong voice for aviation or a Fly-in organiser? Well. with, as I understand it, a threat to PFA permit aircraft now developing from Europe, I know which I'd prefer.

Spiney
P.S. Apologies for going slightly off subject here!

Very true Goddammit,

But that applies to all, and IMHO is no better or worse with PFA flyers than any others. I think that's exactly what Skylark meant too.

Of course FD makes great sense too ... perhaps his post below is the most relavent?

"I think that the slighting of certain groups of aviators or aviation professionals is counterproductive to having a serious discussion about the PFA.

If you have specific experiences by all means share them so that they can be debated in a constructive manner. Generalising as people have been doing in the last few posts is not helpful and will only result in a slanging match, achieving zilch.

Of course just my opinion,

FD"

SS