Considering the prices and who will teach you in the Pitt's .... no contest! go for it ... the price has just about the same gulp:ooh: factor as the aerobatics themselves though!

IM

Well, it has its advantages and disadvantages.

You'll need to learn to taxi, takeoff and land. If you haven't flown a taildragger before, this will take a bit of time, and the Pitts isn't the best taildragger for learning on. It takes off very quickly, and it's hard to feel what's happening. It has powerful controls, so you can overcontrol it if you're not careful. And it has poor visibility (although from the back seat of an S2 it's not too bad). Having said that, it was the first tailwheel type I flew apart from some low powered motor gliders, and after a few horrendous takeoffs and landings where I lived only thanks to the instructor's quick reactions, it wasn't too bad. You should expect to spend quite a few hours in the circuit if you want to solo it.

The next downside is that it isn't a terribly good classroom. The instructor is in front of you (probably behind you actually for the first few flights), and it's a noisy, cold, drafty aeroplane. Alan Cassidy's S2A has a canopy over both front and back cockpits, so it may not be quite as cold and windy as the one I flew.

When it comes to aeros, some manouvers are easy (rolls), others are quite hard to get right. The Pitts will bite you when some other aeroplanes won't. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.... As an example, you can do a nice entry into an inverted spin from a botched stall turn, and I went through a phase of doing uninentional inverted flicks when rolling off the top of a loop. :O

Like any aerobatic aeroplane, you need to fly with finesse to get the best out of it. However, some low-powered slow-rolling types need finesse to get anything out of them at all, and that's a good way to learn.

The Pitts has the advantage that you can let things go a bit wrong safely. You can also do inverted spins in it, which isn't the case with most aircraft used for aeros training in the UK.

In conclusion, I'd say that it wouldn't be the aeroplane that I'd recommend for initial aerobatics training, but given the choice between a Cessna at £141, a Cap at £185 and a Pitts at £200, I'd probably go for the Pitts at the moment. If the Cap was given its +6g limit back, I'd go for that instead.

But you should consider moving somewhere cheaper!

Regardless of all that, though, I think that anyone who gets the opportunity to fly a Pitts should take it. One of the most satisfying things I've ever done was my first perfect landing in a Pitts.:) (Needless to say, it got me back later.... :( )

One of the most satisfying things I've ever done was my first perfect landing in a Pitts.

I have over 200hrs in Pitts aircraft and reckon that I have less than 20 perfect landings!


Good instruction in s2A's is available in the US and currently costs about $280/hr with an ER of 1.6 that works out at £175 - not a whole lot cheaper than flying with David, sorry Alan ......Cassidy




Stik

Actually, thinking hard and critically about it, I'm not sure that the word "first" isn't surplus to requirements in the above sentence... :O :(

AF, thanks for that very clear picture. Your point about the classroom makes it clear for me in any case, that the right route is the 152 until I've got some idea of what I'm doing, and then move on to the Pitts.

I know it took me a while but thanks to everyone for helping me get there!

Stik, thanks for the reminder. You know that I'm sure now to call him David when I meet him.........the inevitability of it is quite scary!

walkabout, ask yourself this - who would you like to be taught aerobatics by? The British Aerobatic champion? The chap who has just written one of THE definitive texts on competition aerobatics? Give Alan (not David!) Cassidy a call - you will learn a LOT :ok: .

Shortstripper.

I knew we were really of the same mind.

And I've nothing against aerobatting a Cessna if there is nothing else available. But in Walkabout's case there is and I think it would be a good to fly the Cap and then the Pitts, especially in view of the prices quoted.

My first aeros were also in a glider and I'm a firm believer in progression, changing your equipment as you go. You know how it is, anyone with the cash can go and buy an Extra or suchlike and, if they throw enough money at it, get quite good. But they miss out on so much along the way!

Anyway, happy landings.

DB6

Give Alan (not David!) Cassidy a call - you will learn a LOT .


We both know and respect him but neither of us has actualy told Walkabout just how SCAREY he can be:D

I've also had some pretty harsh judging by him, too!

I've never flown with him but have had some excellent gound critique from David aka The Master.

edited to add - AC reads Pprune, DB6, so I guess by now he has worked out who we are! You'll be okay but I'm deeper in the dwang!

Stik

Not sure if this has been said before, but make sure you can rent the type you are training on. Ideally this will be renting from the same people that did the training.

There are places doing dual on Robins for not much above a hundred quid, if you are happy to drive a 90mins or so from London.

Otherwise there is indeed the S2A at WW. I've had the privelege of being slapped on the back of the helmet by Alan... he's a demanding but friendly instructor and has a truly deeper understanding of aeros than anyone else I've met. If you don't fly with him, then definitely buy his book.

Whilst the G limitation on the CAP is annoying I would be surprised if you reach that limit learning the basics, even with the Caps light stick force, and whilst, as has been said, the Cap can be a bit too easy for learning the basics (Pitts even more so) i think I would find that prefferable to the Cessna with its yoke.

Walkabout

Just got back from my 4th session in the Cap10b at Waltham - having completely forgotten everything from sessions 1->3 to start with, but still a lovely day for it.

I have to confess I find the Cap10 very challenging - I've got 70 hours total, almost all of it on Warriors, the rest being 172s and the Cap - I find even maintaining the straight and level a struggle in the Cap right now; I'm in half a mind as to whether I would be better off in an Aerobat, but since there aren't any at WW (and the place is 10 minutes down the road) it's not an option. On the plus side, the full-and-frank feedback I'm getting from the aerobatics instruction is making me much more aware of the way I'm flying the club PA28s as I pootle around trying to log more solo hours; the club are keen I should get checked out a PA28-180 Cherokee, since a) it frees up a Warrior for training that I would otherwise have booked and b) it's (apparently) a bit more nimble, which might help (a bit) with my Cap10 handling. I'm also keen to get additional tail-dragger experience in something a little more benign - hence some time in the Cub; but don't take my word for it - definately book some time in the Cap10 as well as the Aerobat or the Pitts before you make up your mind, and above all - have fun!

regards,

Ed

Stik, I was going to say something about Death Valley Sense of Humour (i.e. drrrrry) but thought the better of it.
I flew with Alan several years back and loved it, but felt slightly intimidated by the amout of stuff I did NOT know about aerodynamics. I too learnt loads from just one ground critique session at Sherburn. Never occurred to me that an aircraft with differential ailerons will suffer loads of adverse yaw when rolling from the inverted :8 .