Well, I've voted, but am in the 'break off by 500 feet' camp - since it's my licence at stake.

One does wonder whether the practice is worth it, with that restriction.

I have been down further, when the airfield was not busy (i.e. just before closing, nothing in the circuit, etc.) and that was very useful. Still it was familiar territory, so one still has the wonder about a real event.

I firmly believe that you can practice them very appropriately without having to go down below 500ft.

You can practice the last bit every time you make a glide-approach into the airfield you fly from/to.

The most important bit is the bit above 500ft, as in setting it up, field selection etc. If you don't get those bits right you can forget it. Nobody saves a botched set up with that little height/time left.

FD

Not sure I agree. The hardest part of any landing is the bit from 500ft down. Wind gradient changes everything.

I haven't voted, because I don't think my winter's flying reflects what I would hope to do.

How do people who take pax a lot feel about PFLs with them on board?

Even in this conjested island there has to be multiude of areas that could be set aside to allow certain avaition training procedures to be carried out to completion, or as near as the PIC decides is safe, without the fear of recrimination from the CAA.

If the military can have vast expanses of the country to practice blowing each other up, perhaps some of these areas could be utilised for specific training at weekends/bank holidays. For example, a relatively small area at the edge of a danger area (Salisbury Plain, Otterburn etc) could be utilised for PFL's, EFATO's late go-arounds et al, without the obvious worry of pi55ing off the local populace, because there wont be any. I appreciate that many of the DA's are active weekends, and some are activated by NOTAM, but with the right procedure in place, and an appropriate controlling authority, these could be very well utilised to give us all the oppertunity to carry out the procedures to everything but the landing.

I would imagine that these areas would be heavily utilised, but the skies would ultimately be full of people that have the confidence, and now the experience of dealing with these situations in an emergency.

I do them frequently, especially with first-time pax. The great fear that new passengers have seems to be the stall and engine failure, both seemingly leading to the aeroplane plummeting hundreds of feet (copyright Daily Mail) into a busload of nuns. Seeing that a PFL is a non-event helps considerably. Stalls are reserved for the more confident, but also help.

I don't mention mid-airs, structural failure, fire or groundlooping into the hedge... :ouch:

Over parts of Wales, you wouldn't want to practice one below 5,000 ft: Chances are you don't have a whole heck of a lot of terrain clearance and you are likely to be in cloud.

I have been through severe icing at 5,0 in June up there and had to climb out of it.

I disagree with previous - at 500' you know whether or not you're going to hit the spot.
:hmm: :ugh: :uhoh: What would you do if you went to < 200' and applied power for the go-around and the engine did not respond.
That's more like cardiovascular exercise!

I see no point in setting aside an area to practice in - the real thing ain't going to catch you out in friendly territory. I recall a previous about flying tight circuits just in case of engine failure - so you just arrived near the field after a two hour leg, gee, better fly a tight circuit cause I'll be in real troble if the engine quits now...

I wouldn't do them with non pilot pax.

There is of course nothing amiss by showing that if you reduce the engine power to idle the machine will not plummet earthwards into the busses full with nunns but there is little to be gained by demonstrating your ability to do a PFL to your passengers (the vast majority of which will have not a clue anyway)

Most bad aviation incidents will have a preamble along the lines of: 'Look at how well I can do this etc'

Regarding windshear etc below 500' and the need to go that low to prove you have set it up correctly, I'd say that if the spot is that tight it will probably pay to give yourself a bit more margin.

FD

I guess we'll disagree on that one, F'D' - I've found pax to be interested and reassured both by the ability of the aeroplane to glide well with idle power and the fact that we can position to land in a field without problems. It only takes the most basic commentary for them to figure out what we're doing.

As for

that's a bit melodramatic, don't you think? We're not talking about some ham-fisted wingover here, or the infamous low-level steep turn. We're talking about demonstrating a PFL to a passenger, going around once we're established - and, quite frankly, if you cannot do that safely then you probably shouldn't have licence nor passenger.

E,

Happy to disagree!

:)

In my experience most folks that are being flown around like to have a whizz round the block and a nice and smooth ride followed by a gentle landing.

I think that anything other than that should only be undertaken by experienced folks with passengers that are keen and have a fair understanding of what aviation entails and the associated risks are.

The height band in which one would do a PFL is typically the one occupied by low flying RAF hardware.

Furthermore you would not be the first to have to make the PFL into a FL due to a mechanical problem which arose at the moment you want to go-around.

Melodramatic? Not sure. Just don't like to be caught with my pants down.

But anyone who isn't hampered by such concerns should feel free to go for it.

FD

Couldn't agree more. The hardest part obout a forced landing (and the bit I always had trouble with) is working out where you're going to land, and judging everything right to get you to the spot. Once you can do that in your sleep, then the sub 500' bit is easy. Besides in real life, if you don't arrive at the right spot by the time you reach 500', its probably too late anyway.

In the UK we're fairly luck with respect to the number of fields around (compared to say LA or somewhere). I would always aim to do a long base, followed by a very short final into the wind and all being well into the field, possibly leaving flaps out for as long as possible in case I need to "baloon" over anything I haven't noticed before (like a fence).

Fingers cross, will never need to do one though :D