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-   -   Flying with FAA license in UK (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/647332-flying-faa-license-uk.html)

spitfire 19th Jun 2022 00:04

Flying with FAA license in UK
 
I learned to fly in the UK and have a CAA PPL, but let it expire after moving to the USA.

Am current with an FAA private license, and have a Class 3 medical.

I will be in the UK in July & August this summer and would like to do some private flying in a rented G registered plane. Am trying to figure out the best way to accomplish this.

I found this on the CAA website https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...n-UK-airspace/
Can anyone confirm that this is in fact the process I am supposed to follow? It's almost unbelievably onerous, almost purpose designed so that no one will actually go through with it.

I am wondering if it would be easier to revalidate my old (brown wallet) CAA PPL. Does anyone know what I would need to do to make that happen? I am completely out of touch with all the twists and turns that have been happening.

Prop swinger 19th Jun 2022 00:25

Which part of that page do you find to be "unbelievably onerous"?

Renewing the SEP rating on your old PPL would involve some mandatory re-training (thanks EASA) and then a flight test but no exams.

Fl1ingfrog 19th Jun 2022 01:13

1. check that your 'brown' licence was issued for 'life'. There were a couple of years when they were issued for a fixed term.
2. Did you hold a Radiotelephony Licence? If so then it doesn't matter that it has expired; holding the expired R/T licence will qualify for the RT privileges to be entered into your updated PPL. note: it is not mandatory to hold a RT licence to fly but it is in order to operate the radios. If you did not hold an RT licence or can't find it then you need to undertake a Radio Telephony test with a RT examiner but this will require a couple of hours briefing before hand.

You do not need your FAA licence as such, but with your logbook your demonstrated currency will satisfy the school/flying clubs HOD/CFI that you do not require training. (I'm sure all will agree that UK airspace familiarisation training is essential once in the UK). The HOD (with CAA Approval) can then complete that the training is satisfied and sign the training certificate which is then suppled with your application to the CAA. You do not require mandatory training. You will need a SEPL Renewal test with a UK CAA Flight Examiner. This will be very similar to the biennial test that you will be used to. You will require the English language Proficiency form is completed and submitted to level 6 and this can follow a brief chat.. Do you have a CAA approved school and examiner near you in Texas?

Your now ready to submit the licence re-issue application form. The PPL licence will be in the new format. State that you want to keep the old brown licence (it is still valid for use with limited privileges but these limitations could change for the better).

Whatever route you choose you are up against the clock.

Genghis the Engineer 19th Jun 2022 01:18

Or just get a temporary validation of your FAA Licence.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...n-UK-airspace/


You must:
  • hold a valid Licence/Certificate (that is a licence that is not subject to suspension, limitation or other enforcement action by the issuing authority);
  • hold a valid, current rating relevant to the aircraft to be operated, and the privileges to be exercised, demonstrable by reference to appropriate log book and licence evidence;
  • hold at least a valid Class 2 Medical issued by the issuing authority;
  • hold an “English proficient” endorsement on their ICAO licence, to meet the minimum level 4 proficiency, or have their proficiency confirmed by a UK CAA Approved Language Proficiency Assessment Centre if no such endorsement applies or the candidate wishes to be credited with proficiency levels 5 or 6 (FormCAA5003 applies).
  • complete an acclimatisation flight, which is a check flight conducted with a qualified UK instructor. The aim of the flight is to demonstrate that you are safe to fly the aircraft in UK airspace.

Hardly onerous, it's a bit of paperwork and a rental checkout, not much different to the FAA biennial that all FAA certified pilots have to do every 2 years at home.

G

EXDAC 19th Jun 2022 01:46


Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer (Post 11248387)
Hardly onerous

Well, since an FAA certificated pilot does not need a class 2, or even a class 3 medical, to fly in USA I do find that requirement to be onerous. I am a British national with FAA commercial and instructor ratings residing in USA . I used to be able to fly in UK on my FAA certificate and have done so. Now it seems I can't. (I fly in USA on BasicMed).

Prop swinger 19th Jun 2022 04:08

You can fly in the UK using a self declared declaration of medical fitness with a UK PPL. I doubt the FAA would allow me to fly in the US without further complication.

ahwalk01 19th Jun 2022 12:18

It's incredibly onerous - the US doesn't ask for verbal/written exams or a skill test. (or a fee). The aircraft flies exactly the same. Plus the fact that you can do CAA training in the US is particularly galling. And I need permission to fly G-reg in the UK, and pay landing fees (and approach fees!) - no thanks!

Fl1ingfrog 19th Jun 2022 12:30

From the CAA website:

Alternative means of compliance

If you hold the same rating on a current, valid, ICAO-compliant licence from another licensing authority and the rating has not yet expired, you can apply directly to take a Proficiency Check at an ATO to have your rating renewed, without having to take an assessment first.

Your validating medical certificate for the licence onto which the rating is issued must also be current and valid.

Please note you can only hold EASA licences through one member state, and that should be the state which holds your medical records. [the strike through is mine, this whole line is now redundant]

As you are the holder of a UK CAA pilot licence you may make a 'medical declaration online now from wherever you currently are in the world. With the Licence Proficiency Check passed and the medical. declaration completed online you may fly immediately whilst you await the renewed PPL licence certificate in the post.

n.b. as you will wish to rent from a UK club when your in the UK it may be best to undertake the LPC and familiarisation training at the same club so that the club knows you and are confident with the process.

selfin 19th Jun 2022 13:27

Well gee that's only a few years out of date. That exception was moved to an implementing rule in FCL.740(b), ult subpara:

"Applicants shall be exempted from the requirement in points (b)(1) and
(b)(2) if they hold, and are entitled to exercise the privileges of, a
valid rating for the same class or type of aircraft on a pilot licence
issued by a third country in accordance with Annex 1 to the Chicago
Convention.
"

Points (b)(1) and (b)(2) refer respectively to the evaluation and refresher training.

Fl1ingfrog 19th Jun 2022 14:39

Thank you selfin but how is that different from the simplified statement that the CAA are currently publishing and which is not out of date. As the saying goes: KISS, so give the CAA some credit when its due.

Genghis the Engineer 19th Jun 2022 17:00


Originally Posted by EXDAC (Post 11248388)
Well, since an FAA certificated pilot does not need a class 2, or even a class 3 medical, to fly in USA I do find that requirement to be onerous. I am a British national with FAA commercial and instructor ratings residing in USA . I used to be able to fly in UK on my FAA certificate and have done so. Now it seems I can't. (I fly in USA on BasicMed).

I can't exercise my 61.75 in the USA without a class 1 or class 2 either. ICAO standards are where it's at for all things international in flying, something perhaps not all that obvious from the FAA CPL syllabus, as they tend not to talk about international regulations much.

You can thank EASA for driving through this withdrawal of easy permissions for FAA licenced pilots to fly in the UK just before we left it unfortunately. Variations on that have impacted a great many people.

G

spitfire 19th Jun 2022 17:09


Originally Posted by Fl1ingfrog (Post 11248558)
From the CAA website:

Alternative means of compliance

If you hold the same rating on a current, valid, ICAO-compliant licence from another licensing authority and the rating has not yet expired, you can apply directly to take a Proficiency Check at an ATO to have your rating renewed, without having to take an assessment first.

Your validating medical certificate for the licence onto which the rating is issued must also be current and valid.

Please note you can only hold EASA licences through one member state, and that should be the state which holds your medical records. [the strike through is mine, this whole line is now redundant]

As you are the holder of a UK CAA licence already you may make a 'medical declaration online now from wherever you currently are. With the Licence Proficiency Check) passed and the medical. declaration completed online you may fly immediately whilst you await the renewed PPL licence certificate in the post.

n.b. as you will wish to rent from a UK club when your in the UK it may be best to undertake the LPC and familiarisation training at the same club so that the club knows you and are confident with the process.

Thanks, this is really helpful! I am planning to follow this path.

spitfire 19th Jun 2022 17:16


Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer (Post 11248387)
Or just get a temporary validation of your FAA Licence.

https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...n-UK-airspace/

Hardly onerous, it's a bit of paperwork and a rental checkout, not much different to the FAA biennial that all FAA certified pilots have to do every 2 years at home.

G

I am very familiar with the FAA biennial and this is significantly more complicated. The FAA doesn't charge fees, doesn't make me provide certified copies of government documents, doesn't make my ability to fly conditional on their 'approving' my biennial on an unknown timeframe; and doesn't make make my ability to fly conditional on two government agencies cooperating with one another to exchange information, again on an unknown timeframe.




Genghis the Engineer 19th Jun 2022 17:57

I was only referring to the checkout there.

Basically anything to do with CAA is nauseatingly over-complicated for no good reason at the moment. Please don't think it's just you - I had to threaten them with legal action two years ago just to add a rating onto my licence I'd passed and they kept losing the paperwork.

G

selfin 19th Jun 2022 21:19


Originally Posted by Fl1ingfrog (Post 11248608)
Thank you selfin but how is that different from the simplified statement that the CAA are currently publishing and which is not out of date. As the saying goes: KISS, so give the CAA some credit when its due.

The exemption is the same however the authority's opinion that the applicant "can apply directly to take a Proficiency Check at an ATO" is obviously misleading since no ATO involvement is necessary. And the fact that it's no longer applied as an AltMoC but as an IR. That the authority confuses the two is hardly inspiring. The rule started out, necessarily, as an exemption approved by the Commission in mid 2014 following a request by Slovakia in early 2013. Before it was elevated to the status of an IR, member states were permitted but not required to grant approvals derogating from the original IR.

Prop swinger 20th Jun 2022 00:43


Originally Posted by spitfire (Post 11248661)
I am very familiar with the FAA biennial and this is significantly more complicated. The FAA doesn't charge fees, doesn't make me provide certified copies of government documents, doesn't make my ability to fly conditional on their 'approving' my biennial on an unknown timeframe; and doesn't make make my ability to fly conditional on two government agencies cooperating with one another to exchange information, again on an unknown timeframe.

If I was to rent a N-reg in the US I would have to apply for a based-on FAA certificate, for which the FAA would need the CAA to confirm that I do have a valid licence. Before I could use it I would have to do a flight review, which includes verbally proving that I know FAA regulations and also do the not-a-test-but-if-you're-not-good-enough-I-won't-sign-your-logbook flight.

The CAA's validation of foreign licences is pretty much the same process the FAA puts visiting pilots through.

EXDAC 20th Jun 2022 02:23


Originally Posted by Prop swinger (Post 11248798)
Before I could use it I would have to do a flight review, which includes verbally proving that I know FAA regulations and also do the not-a-test-but-if-you're-not-good-enough-I-won't-sign-your-logbook flight.

Perhaps a bit divergent from the primary topic but I recently flew with a flight review applicant who I decided was "not good enough". I signed his log as instruction given. After a lot of ground discussion and some more flying I signed him off for "satisfactory flight review". In US an instructor signs the log whenever they give instruction and a failed flight review is simply instruction given.

I have no problem at all with a requirement to demonstrate I am a competent pilot if I want to fly in UK on my FAA CPL. I simply do not understand the need for a class 2 medical. I have held a class 2 medical but only when needed for the commercial flying I was doing at the time.

MrAverage 20th Jun 2022 09:35

Spitfire

It is my opinion that you have, unknowingly, left it too late for next month or August, unless your UK licence is a lifetime one. (I did an initial PPL test in April and the poor soul is still waiting for his licence to come out of the big grey building in Gatwick)

If it is lifetime it may well be possible. I revived one for someone in a similar position just three weeks ago.

md 600 driver 20th Jun 2022 17:21


Originally Posted by EXDAC (Post 11248815)
Perhaps a bit divergent from the primary topic but I recently flew with a flight review applicant who I decided was "not good enough". I signed his log as instruction given. After a lot of ground discussion and some more flying I signed him off for "satisfactory flight review". In US an instructor signs the log whenever they give instruction and a failed flight review is simply instruction given.

I have no problem at all with a requirement to demonstrate I am a competent pilot if I want to fly in UK on my FAA CPL. I simply do not understand the need for a class 2 medical. I have held a class 2 medical but only when needed for the commercial flying I was doing at the time.

in the uk we donít have a class3 for pilots we have class 2 for ppl and class1 for cpl

Fl1ingfrog 20th Jun 2022 20:38

The CAA same day service is to be revived next month. It could possibly be that you will, within a few days of applying, be able to collect your brand new re-issued PPL in person at Gatwick.

Home - SkyWise

We do have a class 3 medical which is required for Air Traffic Controllers.



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