They scraped data to see who would be worth approaching for potential recruitment to START military training!!! I don't think anyone in the US military believed that they could plonk the gamer into the middle of a battlefield and expect them to perform the same! :E

Hi ELMS77W, you come across as a very keen and interested person to me. You would love to fly, and after years of learning about flying, are about to start your PPL. I wish you every luck, and honestly hope you do well.

My thoughts for what they are worth:

Light aircraft are totally different from big modern jets. Totally different. You will probably find the C152 or PA28 unbelievably crude, basic, cramped and uncomfortable. There is a huge difference between the shirtsleeves-and-coffee flying of a 777 to being squashed against the shoulders of an instructor in a noisy, cold/hot C152. Many things that the big modern jets do automatically for you have to be worked out manually, longhand in the GA aircraft, e.g. Wind velocity, direction and groundspeed. Carburettor icing, fuel mixture etc. To go from light aircraft to a big modern jet takes many years of experience and intensive training, both ground school and 6 axis simulators.

Professional, 6-axis simulators can be fairly realistic, but they cannot reproduce all the accelerations or the visual and audio cues of the real thing. I have got 7 different commercial type ratings on my licence, and I've always found flying the real thing to be a lot easier than the Sim. But I do know of people who got through the Sim, but could not fly the real thing.

A significant number of airline pilots and trainers have an attitude that they are cleverer and better than you, and they think that if you are new to the industry, you know nothing until they have taught you. This is true to an extent and you have an enormous amount of work ahead of you, but you have to let them have their ego - they will be signing your licence. So even though you might have more knowledge than some newbies, do not mention this or sim flying at all, and pretend not to know anything much about flying - certainly not anything deeply technical or operational, such as de-icing hold-over times etc. Be quiet, modest and unassuming. The instructor should tell you what to learn next, so follow their guide.

When I joined my second airline I was about 15 years older than most students and I had had a different career before flying. I mentioned this in conversation when getting to know my first big-jet instructor and he did not like it at all. I think he thought I was big-headed or something, so he gave me a very hard time, and also set some of the other TREs against me. Yet, I was never big headed about flying - always knowing and accepting that I was no ace, just an average Joe.

So, I would keep quiet about any deep knowledge or sim flying. If specifically asked, you could say you've had a go on a friends sim a few times.

The Trevor Thom books are very good for learning and understanding the PPL basics.

Good luck !

Edit: I should also have said that "flying" a desk-top simulator, is nothing like the real thing either. Nothing like it. If you have actual line experience of flying a big jet, then a simulator can be useful for procedural practise or checklist, or memory drill practise, but it really is not anything like the real thing. When flying real big jets, everything happens very very quickly; the novice on their first few hours on the line will find themselves running to keep up with the aircraft, and they go home mentally exhausted.
.

I believe that new pilots should fly the aircraft that they actually do fly. rather than the aircraft that they wish to fly!
also, flying with no g force sounds very boring.

One g should be guaranteed.

And if you order this seat you can progress to the F-35 without further training:
https://www.bsimracing.com/a-look-at...m-g-seat-mkii/

Quite interesting, indeed, the only problem is that it looks too comfortable:}

How’s he going to achieve the next level if he is already at Correlation ?

Assimilation
Integration
.
.

Thought it said slimming, i know a few students that need to.

This did make me chuckle! I see what you're trying to say but it's still has a slightly, shall we say, arrogant cast to it! :}

I've been flying the 777 for well over a decade and I am still learning! With the ubiquitous 'what the hell is it doing this time' phrase popping to mind! Given the mess Boeing have gotten themselves into over the past few years the amount of BAB's, notices and amendments cropping up has become, shall we say, substantial! Some of them fundamentally affecting the way we operate the aircraft!

I don't doubt for a second that you have good 'generic' systems and operational knowledge put please believe me that that knowledge is just a baseline compared to real operations. There is no where on T'internet where the full current and up to date operational limitations and amendments for the 777 are available. My son has searched everywhere!!! Beware using this sort of phrase around professional pilots as you will get bigger 'eye rolls' than a teenager on Tik Tok!

ATB

:ok:

That's exactly what I thought of myself last time I stepped into a flymo R22! :(

Is it possible to get to Correlation without application ?
Might be possible in some full motion simulators , but not a computer based gamer set up .
The costs of most full motion simulators is a lot more expensive than your bug smasher trainer .

I have not spent a lot of time on flight simulators, but I don’t think it could have really prepared me for unexpected thermals, nor gusty crosswind landings, nor stray traffic or nearby fires that obscured the runway.

I initially had a bad habit of “porpoising” on landings, i.e., over controlling, then getting too high then too low on approach. Alas, I almost made myself air sick until I finally learned to chill out and stare at that imaginary dot on the runway before my instructor and I finally got happy with my approach.

Maybe a sim could have helped with that,

Try flying an actual Cessna 152 on a hot day when the thermals keep bouncing you about when you try to maintain a steady altitude or approach,

I don’t think that learning to fly a 777 would help much.

Sim training might help you how to handle the radio in crowded airspace. Practice makes perfect, or at least better.

Hitting the push to talk switch or, in ancient times, picking up a mike to respond to air traffic controller is distracting.

In the sims I saw it seemed like one always had automatic clearance to enter controlled airspace and were cleared to land immediately wherever you wanted to go.

None of this: Say again? Divert to… Look out for traffic at… Please follow… You are number three behind… Watch out for deer on runway…

Or when as a private pilot you can’t get a word in edgeways and are not allowed to enter controlled airspace if the ATC is too busy.

It would be as useful as watching a box set of "Call the Midwife" in preparation for a career in Obstetrics. :)

Just to add to the above. In your initial contact were you banging on about how much flight sim flying you do and the 777? If you were then they probably think you will be too much hard work.

What a fascinating thread!

My 20p worth.

Although a home sim can teach you a lot about systems and check lists, it's very limited and practically pointless in handling. Almost all yokes, throttles and pedal setups are gaming devices, simply spring loaded and totally unlike a real aircraft (airbus excepted of course).

My own home sim has a VR headset, proper control loaded yoke and pedals and push/pull Cessna throttles. It trims like a realistic yoke, and can be setup for different aircraft. It takes the best part of 10 years of spare income to buy it though!
Good luck in your quest, just please please please don't try to impress your instructor.

It's a bit like having played with toy trains and feeling like a real engineer. "Oh, I know the Flying Scotsman quite a bit already."

I think it is commendable that the OP has learned something about the 777 - we should not quash their enthusiasm and interest - many ATPL pilots I know are not very interested or knowledgeable about how the aircraft systems work.

But hopefully the OP realises that there is a lot more to flying than what might be gleaned from a desk-top home Sim; especially light aircraft. Flying a Cessna 152/172 in VMC is incredibly crude and basic, like driving a Mark 1 Landrover or a 1960's Mini - no offence to Cessna or those marques. But even so, there is a hell of a lot going on, and tasks keep coming at you relentlessly. It takes a while to get to the stage where you can assimilate what is going on, and then get ahead of the aircraft, which is where you need to be: 'What is going to happen next, and what do I need to set up next?'.

Best to keep quiet about your Sim and accept that you know very little about actual real flying; but do stay keen and open-minded to the training ahead of you. Good luck !

Indeed, and even more of a challenge in thick claggy IMC trying to track your way to TNT, all whilst writing stuff down.

The OP should read the AAIB report for Light aircraft down in the Lake District , Cumbria, in the accidents thread:

https://assets.publishing.service.go...CIIR_12-21.pdf

Although this was a fatal accident, the report gives a really good explanation of all the issues and considerations involved with flying a light aircraft. I recommend that you read the report very thoroughly. It will give you a good overview.

Well done ELMS, hang in there, and appreciate those who share their wisdom here!

Here we go!

Less Hair
Thanks for the link but these are FAA documents. Don't know if there are some variations between EASA and FAA but I believe there are.

rudestuff
This is me. :8

wiggy
Yea didn't use the words there I agree. We can autoland on CAT1 actually couldn't we? Correct me if I am wrong but I think pilots practise autoland from time to time even when it's not necessary for example to test the aircraft or other reasons.

kghjfg
Never heard it before until doing some researches. I am wondering why it has never been mentioned in any of the lights I flew on the sim. That feature is not present on every general aviation airplanes is it? I mean it's always there but is it not made automatically? When researching for it I found out that many instructors were quite surprised and amused to see how very few simmers were able to explain what this is.

Wirbelsturm
Yes exactly and if with a bit of luck my instructor tells me something I learnt in the sim then it can only be beneficial but the sim won't be THE reference.

FlightDetent
Now I know what carbo heat is.

If they are then how comes that some people here are convinced that sim doesn't help AT ALL? I read tons of IVAO documents in the past, mostly for the exams I passed and you're saying that these documents are actually more detailed than airline books. Someone who studied really detailed books will definitely have a good background when starting his training, that seems obvious to me. As I said now thousands of times, I will listen to my instructor, not mention my sim at all and we'll see how it goes. I might have bad habits, I might have good habits, I don't know. I'll find out with my instructor.
All I can say is that I know many pilots who are still impressed by the level of realism just by flying on VATSIM and some of them are still using desktop sims to practise SOPs and flows.
There are limitations in the sim of course and I mentioned these already. I know I'm not a 777 pilot and can't land an airplane at the moment.

Wirbelsturm
Will do it :ok:

Uplinker
Thanks for your kind words. I have a friend flying in the desktop sim. He started flying in real life recently and was quite surprised by how easier it is to fly a real airplane in comparison to the sim. It's easier to land or just to maintain an altitude because you wouldn't do it only based on numbers (causing bad habits to only look at your instruments) but also on the sensations, the feelings and all the stuff you can't have on desktop sims. I remember how much he was struggling when we asked him to maintain an altitude. In real life, it's easy, a piece of cake. That's what he said and hopefully, it's gonna be the same for me.

Let them have their ego and take away your ego that's the thing. :)

I fully agree.

kghjfg
Rebegin everything again! Always learning new stuff.

Wirbelsturm
Just a little bit. :}
But I am not the only one being arrogant on this thread :)
Seriously, how could I be a 777 pilot when I never flew one? So many things that can't be simulated in a desktop sim like coms for eg. My knowledge is limited to books only. Now I have to practice in the real one if I want to be close to real pilots.

I am too, even in the sim. Sometimes I can discover so many things in a small period of time that I say I know absolutely nothing about aviation. And sometimes, when a non-aviation enthusiast comes here and asks me something incredibly simple that I thought everyone knew like how to read a PFD, I feel like the king of aviation.:rolleyes:
This industry is rich and you'll never stop learning. I don't think there is a king. You have to talk with people and accept to learn from everyone literally, even a poor guy who has never heard of airplanes before. Work as a team. That's how you will be a good pilot.

visibility3miles
I am wondering on which network you flew then. Okay, except for the deer.

SloppyJoe
Never did it. Just said I wanted to study for my PPL. I think I answered that question previously but never mind.

RVF750
I will try to impress my instructor... By flying like he wants me to fly :8

Uplinker
If I already know everything then my training course will be really boring. So many things to discover about my passion and that's what makes it exciting!

Uplinker
I love reading reports!

Love it! Really constructive. I do definitely not regret signing up here! :}

"....am about to start my PPL training really soon, just waiting for the answer from my aeroclub..."

From the first post on the thread. 3rd November. Nearly three weeks ago. Even the slackest aeroclub should have gotten back to you with some dates for that all important first lesson by now. If they haven't, I'd think about making some enquiries other places. No?

Well they got a communication issue because the president recently changed and the old president who is apparently the one who has to take my inscription has never heard of me. Anyway, I got in contact with him so hopefully next week I will be ready for my first lesson!

--
This is a good example of how getting right into simming a big jet can completely steer you away from what you need to know for flying GA planes safely. Failure to understand carb heat and correctly applying it will cause you an engine failure at the least convenient time one day!

• Some GA planes have a carb heat some don't - which are which and why?
• What is the relationship to carb heat and alternate air?
• Do planes which do not have carb heat still have alternate air?
• Do planes have an alternate air control if not a carb heat control?
• What information is necessary for you to apply partial carb heat?
• If you apply carb heat for a rough running engine, and the engine then runs worse, what should you do? Why? For how long?
• If you apply carb heat, and it's not enough, what two engine controls can you adjust to get a little more carb heat? Adjust how?
• When might you need to urgently apply carb heat, but have not encountered carb icing conditions?
• Why should you never use carb heat while taxiing?
• If your plane is equipped with an indicator associated with carb heat, what is that indicator?
• What does the yellow arc on that indicator mean? Where will the yellow arc be on the scale? Will there be any green or red lines on that indicator?
• Will a piston engined airplane which does not have a carb heat control always have an electric fuel pump? Why?
• Could an airplane which does have an electric fuel pump also have a carb heat control?
• Where does the heat resulting from the application of carb heat come from?
• If you have had an engine failure, will applying carb heat help you get it started again? Why?
• What would be a practical warm outside air temperature where you would be unconcerned about carb icing?
• What other atmospheric factors will affect carb icing?
• Can you get carb icing on the ground?
• If you're flying in very well below freezing air, is carb heat a risk?

Instead of an evening at the sim, invest that evening to research the foregoing questions, and come back to us with your thoughts. (Hint - one evening won't be enough!) What you learn about carb heat, the atmosphere, and induction systems to answer these questions will save your life one day, and please your instructor no end when you can articulate the answers correctly.

Depending upon how comprehensive your answer, I'll offer to make this into its own carb heat thread, 'cause it could very easily be its own topic. Your commitment to begin with this topic will get you a lot of wisdom from posters here with life experience with the use of carb heat (or not :uhoh:).

Too much wisdom, perceived or real, is a dangerous thing for one's ego. Turns many young talents into acute backpains. This might actually recoil on him when meeting his instructor with the same disdain we've seen above repeatedly since the thread started.

That knowledge will find him when the time comes.

100+ posts telling the lad how wrong he is, come on. Time to move on - #simNOTsin.

The only advice/question we should be asking: After you reach the goal and become a real widebody pilot, do you understand the consequences and (missed)opportunities of living a life as one?

He should be studying Ruby / Go / Node.js, not carburettor heat.

@Pilot DAR; that is a very comprehensive set of questions about carb heat - wow !
I could not answer all of them despite 20 + years of aviation experience ! (Mostly gas turbine aircraft admittedly).

But the OP not knowing what carb icing is does not make them bad or stupid; When I was little my Dad would sit me on his lap and let me steer the car along the farm-track we lived on, while he did the gears and pedals. When I was slightly older I read books about how cars worked, including electrics, the engine, gearbox, brakes and choke etc. and probably knew more about the technical side of cars than many drivers do.

But I could not drive. When I was older, I was allowed to drive the car by myself along the track, but I was still not a legal driver and had no appreciation of speeds above about 15mph or how to negotiate traffic flows, signalling and the legalities and hazards of driving on the roads. But I was and am keen on driving and my technical knowledge helped inform me when I did pass my test and became a legal driver.

Certainly not! But, I opine that every student pilot has to have a basic knowledge (perhaps 1/3 of the questions I posed) before being ready for PPL exams. Thereafter, as the PPL continues on to more advanced GA airplanes, at least the next third of my posed questions would become applicable to the airplane they aspire to fly. And, the eager young mind, who started off inquiring about hold over time for deicing/anti icing fluid (not my strong skill set) should be aware that there's some much more basic systems knowledge which is more important to what they will fly first.

I remember being involved professionally in the investigation and commenting of the accident report for a Cessna 207 I had flown quite a bit before the other pilot's fatal accident. Among the things in the draft report (which apparently passed many eyes before it got to me) was a longish paragraph in the report, stating that the pilot had not selected carb heat, how that was an error, and how it might have been a factor. The Cessna 207 does not have a carburetor. The investigator had ample time to research this, and he even resisted my correction. I challenged him to look for the carb heat control on the depiction of the instrument panel in the POH, and that began to swing him around.

One of my early certification projects was to convert a Cessna 185 to have a carburetor, including designing and testing to approval, a carb heat system, and writing a flight manual supplement as to how to use it. I genuinely hope to swing the OP around to an interest in the systems and piloting of airplane types he/she will first encounter as a student, and build the good habit of learning what you'll be flying, rather than learning something else which distracts you from learning what you'll be flying, and then thinking the basic systems are unimportant. Carb heat is kind of the second cousin in the GA cockpit, some people seem to think it unimportant. The OP displays an interest in research, carb heat is an excellent starter topic to research!

"Why should you never use carb heat while taxiing?"
Most of my flying has been in aircraft whose manuals recommend carb heat while taxiing if needed. Jodel 1050 and Bolkow Junior, both with Continental O200 engines. Bad if dust ingested but on Sunday last the engine stopped soon after starting to taxi. Carb heat fixed it.

As Maoraigh says, our Continental 0-200 won't taxi very far over frosty grass without generous doses of carb heat. Be interested to hear why one shouldn't use it?

picky of me I know, but what you really mean is that too much knowledge without the accompanying requisite wisdom is a dangerous thing. ;)

How reliable can knowledge obtained from some entertainment software be? A cockpit might look "real" for an outsider but it might work different. Look at trim indicators in game simulated aircraft, sometimes they just work in the opposite direction, or rudder deflections that are plain wrong. Look at you tube videos and how rude "expert" gamers fly and operate their complex aircraft. But spinning wheels, gear doors and the fasten seat belt signs are modelled in every detail. These things are made by computer nerds but they are not necessarily working like the real thing. And they are entirely missing instruction, procedures, regulations and certification. Therefore it's better to forget games and learn the real thing from scratch.

From the Cessna 150M, and other Cessna POH's, under "Taxiing"

The design requirements require that the alternate air source not be filtered (in case of a blocked filter, which a pilot could not see during a preflight inspection)

Steam powered locomotives took years to learn how to operate one...at least 5 or 6 years

When can I be a driver?
When you're too old and knackered to be a fireman any longer, son.