Competency based Instrument rating
 

Hi,

Happy new year to all!

I am a PPL with around 160 hours total time and a lapsed IMC-R (restricted IR). Thinking about going all out and doing the IR. Looking at what/who/where for the ground exams/school and was wondering what people's experiences are of this and what they would recommend? I am in no rush, and would do a few hours a week until they're all done. I am well used to studying independently, and want to do only the bare minimum at an actual ground school, with the rest at home. I have seen there is CATS at Luton, I don't know much about ground schools at Stapleford and Wycombe, or anywhere else in the North London (ish) vicinity.

What would you recommend?

Thanks

I would suggest to start with the theory e.g. Bristol Groundschool. Then do as much as possible on flight sims (PC and approved sims). Go flying with your friends to learn procedures, etc. Then for the practical training consider the airfield (ILS equipped) access and costs. Fields like LFAV and LFQT have cheap landing fees, good access and full RNAV, ILS.

I did my IR in 1984 by correspondence course (pre-PC) with Oxford. Then a week residential for 4 days revision and test on the Friday. Theory required circa 1 year (part-time). Practical training was at the High Wycombe sim, Piccadilly hotel sim and Stansted airport. Passed at total 203 hours (min was 200 hrs).

Good luck, Flyme

Hello Gantshill,

I can guess what the "IR" is in the thread title, but I don't know what the "CB" is (I'm guessing it's not circuit breaker). Would you please edit your post title to be a bit more specific so other posters may understand from the title what you'd like to discuss...

Thanks, Pilot DAR

Competence Based, it's an EASA course that provides a theoretically more streamlined route to obtaining the full IR, with a bit less of the traditional (in Europe) nauseating exam loading. To be fair, it's a term that most people in Europe will be familiar with, but I can see why it's alien to people outside Europe.

In essence it reduces the exam / theory load from about seven times what's required for the FAA IR, to about four times.

G

As mentioned, its the Competency-based IR. A relatively new European rating that allows en-route use of Airways and in IMC. Requires quite a lot of training. Not intended to allow approaches/ Star /Sid and that's where the problem arises. Having arrived at destination what is the CB-IR pilot intended to do? With a Garmin magic box and coupled auto-camel the route to a safe landing is obvious. Flyme.

Incorrect, it's not a new rating. It's a new route to obtain a rating that has existed for many many years.

The new rating that allows IFR/IMC en-route but not approaches is the EIR, or En-Route Instrument Rating. Same theory, but only the en-route part of the IR skill test (checkride to North Americans). Yes, I agree, a lot of work, for very little capability - a really silly idea, unsurprisingly not adopted very widely.

G

Thanks G, that wasn't so hard, now that we all know what we're talking about!

This is completely wrong. There is only one 'full' EASA IR and one EASA IR test. There are actually 8 ways to get in a position to take the EASA IR test and CB 'routes' account for 3 of them. Think modular Vs integrated - it's the same licence.
Depending on which route you follow, you can take anywhere from 0 to 14 exams - (yes, you can get an EASA IR with zero exams!) Most will still take all 14 exams if they're planning on going 'all the way'.

As it happens I'm just setting myself up with the zero exams route at the moment.

In case anybody doesn't know, if you have an EASA PPL or CPL, an ICAO (e.g. FAA) IR, and a minimum of 50hrs PiC IFR, then you can present for the EASA IR skill test without having to take any new written exams. As I'm in the happy position of an EASA CPL and an FAA IR, plus the hours, that's what I'm doing in the next few months. The only thing I lose from this is the ability to go from CPL to ATPL, but as that isn't on my personal game plan, I'm fine. If (unlikely) that ever changes, I'll be back to school for a while to do the 14 EASA ATPL writtens.

(Clearly if I present straightaway for an EASA IRT I'll fail it, so I will need instruction, I just don't need that to be within any formal framework, just by a suitably experienced grownup.)

G

Thanks, this seems like some actionable advice. Would anyone have and care to share their experiences of various distance-based learning course/materials? E.g. CATS v Bristol etc?

I did my CPL TK with CATS ten years ago. Superb material, nice people, very shambolic in terms of their organisation of anything, fair prices, near 100% pass rate.

Is it still the same? No idea.

G

You need an ATO for two reasons: To teach you the stuff and to sign you off to take the exams. I went with CATS for the sign off because they were the cheapest, but I studied using Bgsonline, Google and YouTube.

On the no exams front be prepared for an FAA style Oral that will last a number of hours. As an IRE we are briefed to THOROUGHLY test the candidates knowledge. Also remember that the no exam route restricts you to PPL privileges even if you hold a CPL.

​​​​​​ Have you got a reference for that?

That sounds extremely surprising, yes, references please.

Yes, the FAA style oral is well known, but PPL privileges is news to me, and I'd looked into this in some detail. So far as I have seen, an IR is an IR is an IR once issued, the only exception is the need for the ATPL writtens to go from CPL to ATPL, or operate mandatory multi-crew.

G

From here: https://www.caa.co.uk/Commercial-ind...rument-rating/

Absolutely nothing about subsequent restriction of privileges. (Although a useful reminder of the need to ensure FAA licence validation.)

G

I have a licence sat on my desk from a CB IR candidate that has just come back with the restricted to PPL privileges printed in the restrictions column.......

A Spanish licence, perchance?

At all the EASA meetings I've attended, it's always been the Spanish representatives who seem to have the least idea about the ACTUAL privileges included in the Aircrew Regulation.

Yep. Tip of the iceberg on the problems we have with the Spanish. They are adamant that it’s correct. It’s my project next week to get to the bottom of.

thanks! On the CAA website it says “You must complete at least 150 hours of theoretical knowledge instruction.“ Surely this can’t mean 150 hours in a classroom?? Is that what you did? I have sent them an email to clarify but I’m sure it will take a while for them to get back to me!

I bought an EC registered aeroplane a few years ago, to lease to a flying school in the UK. When they were supposed to transfer the ownership to me, entirely legit within EASA - the Spanish authorities simply cancelled the registration without telling anybody. The consequences were .... messy! Not a country I can recall any satisfactory experiences with, aeronautically, beyond some really nice places to fly.

G

Is it the CB-IR that is restricted to PPL privileges or the licence? If the licence has been converted under Annex III B then the restriction is correct but the Regulation does not allow for the restriction of an IR in this manner

I will be able to tell yo tomorrow as I am in the UK and its on my desk at work in Spain. The student is doing her nut to say the least. She converted a South American CPL/IR to EASA, I did both the CPL and IR Skill tests with CPL being the standard conversion and the IR being the CBM IR route as she only had EASA CPL Exams at that point (currently doing the ATPLS) but wanted to get everything converted before the ratings expired. As far as I understand it in the remarks column next to the IR its states "Non Commercial". I emailed the Spanish CAA who responded saying that in order to exercise the privileges commercially she needed to do the CPL & IR Exams or the ATPL exams...........

Genghis CB IR
 

Genghis - I too am trying to get set up for the CB IR - I have done a little of the training and hope to find time in May/June to take a week off and get the flying / test done. Are you using an instructor ? Did you join PPL IR? Where are you thinking to do the flight test ? Happy to swap/share experiences and or training notes here or by PM.

I am not going for the "CB" element insofar as I don't need to pass any writtens, nor do I need a training course (just training to ensure I pass).

I'm just talking to a friendly instructor who I did part of my CPL with and now flies for an airline about training with them in my own aeroplane, to ensure that I get through the skill test and (especially) the oral; I have a share in an airways equipped aeroplane, which helps. Yes I've also joined PPLIR, although not used the organisation much yet. For an initial, we need to go to CAA and use a staff examiner, but I have hopes to arrange to do the test at Staverton if it can be made to happen that way.

Drop me an email if you like and we can talk more - my PPrune PM box is invariably full up.

G

Pretty much identical situation, mail sent.

I've recently completed the CBIR ground exams and am waiting for March / April to complete the flying. For the ground school I went with Caledonian (captonline.com) , mainly on the basis that they were cheapest and I couldn't really see any benefit in the more expensive options. The notes were delivered in PDF and book form and were OK but for some topics I did find myself hunting around for other sources to help me understand. Caledonian also maximise the amount of time you do via Skype for the classroom stuff so less time having to travel to far corners of the country. But the thing I couldn't have passed without is the question bank - I used Aviation Exam. A lot of the questions seem to be worded in a way to deliberately catch you out and it's only by doing the question bank that I gained the confidence to spot the traps.
I know the syllabus is simpler than the old IR syllabus but it still seems to contain a bunch of stuff that will never be useful (distance of the Galileo satellite system from the earth anyone....?) It's also a bit weird that (to use Flight Planning and Monitoring as an example) that IFR flight planning, fuel planning topics etc are in the CBIR syllabus but flight monitoring / in flight re-planning isn't (but is in the ATPL syllabus). I suppose my point is that there seems to be a lot of useless stuff that is included in the syllabus and then some useful stuff that isn't!
I (perhaps foolishly) decided to do all 7 exams in one week and was relatively happy to pass 5 out of 7 first go (pass mark is 75%)
I got 90-100 in Air Law, Human Performance, Instrumentation and IFR comms and found that I had decent time in those exams to go back over my answers. IFR comms was a bit ridiculous in that it took about 3 hours to get to the exam centre from home and back and 10 minutes to do the exam. I scraped a pass in Radio Navigation and did find that topic a bit more challenging.
I failed Met with 68 I think because it's the topic with the most content and I simply hadn't spent enough time on it. I passed that 2nd go with a 94.
The one I found hardest was Flight Planning and Monitoring and I failed it twice with a 70 and 73. Unlike the other topics this was the one where each question wasn't necessarily hard but you have to do about 30 questions in 40 minutes many of which involve having to wrestle with maps or do multi-part fuel / nav calculations so I found myself working at speed, taking the first answer I got to and then not having any time to go back and double check my answers. I'm pretty certain I'd have passed first time if I'd had more time so the key to this topic is being able to do it really fast.
I did the exams at CATS in Luton which was fine. There's a cafe in the reception area downstairs and tables where you can sit and cram if you're waiting for your next exam.
I'm now thinking that maybe I should have done the CPLs in case I want to instruct in the future but never mind.
Hope that helps - let me know if you need anything else.

or come out to Spain for a weekend and I will do the test for you and at a fraction of the price of booking it through Gatwick......

S-works - wondering where in Spain are you based ?

South coast in Jerez. :)

Slightly off-topic but I have this in my near future too. I have an FAA CPL-ASEL/IR (and PPL-H). I'll be moving back to France later this year. I think I've got the PPL/IR stuff figured out, as described above. But.

-- exactly which exams do you have to do? The DGAC (France) website seems to say "you only need to do two" (but not which ones) "but actually we don't have any way to let you only do two" (!).
-- is there a relatively painless way (i.e. not x weeks of classroom instruction and 14 exams) to get an EASA CPL also? Not that I have any ambition to get paid for flying (I wish) but if it's not too hard, why not?

Thanks...

you want a CPL you do the CPL or ATPL exams. End of discussion.

In either direction, your second IR, or a ridealong PPL (61.75 in FAAland) are pretty much the only major shortcuts, and maybe reduced training hours. The exam and test standards are what they are.

Personally I have *only* done CPL exams both sides of the Atlantic and the FAA IR written, as I've nothing in my game plan that wants an ATPL. CPL/IR is fine. I dodged the IR(R) written, and am dodging the EASA IR writtens - first for having an EASA CPL, and second for having an FAA IR and over 50hrs PiC IFR. Not exactly a shortcut, but equally I'm grateful for the exams I've not had to do.

G

daxwax - this is really useful. How long did it take you to study/prepare for all the exams?

In itself that seems entirely reasonable. However the DGAC website says something along the lines of "you should contact an ATO which will determine what is required". In other words the ATO could (according to this) decide that you only need to do a subset of the exams, or (much more important imo) that you don't need to do the formal training. I don't mind doing exams, but I detest classroom training - just SOOOO boring. (Not needed in FAA land and indeed I never did any, just read loads of books).

I think you'll probably find that means the ATO can decide how much training you need to do. You'll still have to pass all the exams.

Article 8 of the Aircrew Regulation states:This means that the ATO may recommend a reduction in the course duration, number of lessons or training hours but the exams and flight tests are not negotiable

Just beaten to the draw by Rudestuff

Thank you - that's perfectly clear now. Still a lot to learn about EASA land.