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Best android tablet to use for SkyDemon.
Hello all. I have an iPhone 8 with SkyDemon on it but display is a bit on the small side. I’m considering a getting an Android tablet I would use primarily for SkyDemon about IPad mini size. Does anyone have any good recommendations which have a good in built GPS for the £100 mark? Thanks Mooneyboy |
I've been using a Tesco Hudl II (which was well ahead of its time in performance) and it's been brilliant at running SD. It's still available on ebay with new batteries for a price that you can try out the Android presentation without spending too much. It's GPS, compass and attitude sensors allow you to run some of the 'imitation instrument' apps that could at least get you through a cloud break in a full instrument failure. However I recently bought a Lenovo Tab4+ 8" tablet to replace the Hudl as the main SD presentation and that's been excellent but has not got the compass or attitude sensors built in. Total cost of the two would be around £200.
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I am using an Archos 55, but find the GPS performance less than impressive. Still it is quite sufficient, especially when flying. I never even looked into the compass or attitude sensors, I don't think they are available on this cheapo phone.
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Samsung Galaxy Tab A6 about £120 from Argos works perfectly well with Skydemon. No issues with overheating either.
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As per Meikleour. The internal GPS works fine on my knee, for which the A6 is perfectly sized. I've also got a yoke mount for it. I find the battery lasts for 8 hours of use so no need for additional charging leads - it's completely stand-alone.
Friends of mine went 'up-country' yesterday into England. Wiltshire, actually, so a really long way!. The iPad packed up after about 30 mins as it dropped the Bluetooth connection to the GPS thingy and wouldn't recover. However, they also had a Samsung A6 which performed perfectly both ways, no need for GPS 'help'. If iPads are so great, why is there a market for a holder with cooling fans built-in and GPS dongles? TOO |
Originally Posted by TheOddOne
(Post 10402094)
As per Meikleour. The internal GPS works fine on my knee, for which the A6 is perfectly sized. I've also got a yoke mount for it. I find the battery lasts for 8 hours of use so no need for additional charging leads - it's completely stand-alone.
Friends of mine went 'up-country' yesterday into England. Wiltshire, actually, so a really long way!. The iPad packed up after about 30 mins as it dropped the Bluetooth connection to the GPS thingy and wouldn't recover. However, they also had a Samsung A6 which performed perfectly both ways, no need for GPS 'help'. If iPads are so great, why is there a market for a holder with cooling fans built-in and GPS dongles? TOO i have flown in Spain at 40 C strapped to my leg and never had a problem with my silver one, but I will agree you will pay a premium for owning a IPad |
Thankyou for all the replies. Was also looking at the Huawei MediaPad T3 7 Inch 16GB Tablet. This says it has a ‘gravity sensor’ so hoping this would mean this could provide similar to the Tesco Hudl. This tablet says it ‘supports gps’. Does this mean it has it internally?Certainly these days the tablet market has a lot more choice than when I first got my iPad mini ( which isn’t the cellular one). Had a look at Argos and the Samsung tab I couldn’t find it at the £120. The Lenovo seems to be at a good price so that might be the one I go for. The Tesco Hudl 2 with the ability for an artificial horizon sounds intriguing. I’ll have a search to see if there is a modern alternative. Thanks Mooneyboy |
I have the Huawei 8" Mediapad and run Skydemon. The internal GPS works fine but I mostly used the Bluetooth GNS2000 external receiver. The Mediapad has exceptional screen quality. Highly recommended.
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Jesus have non of you lot heard a things called maps compasses and wizz wheels
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@Prangster: What's that in English, please?
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"Jesus have non of you lot heard a things called maps compasses and wizz wheels"
Airspace Avoid has the circles already shown. Using compasses to draw circles damages the screen. |
‘Wizz wheels’ is that the new second hand car dealership owned by Wizzair?? |
Jesus have non of you lot heard a things called maps compasses and wizz wheels I have to admit though, flying close to controlled airspace in poor visibility is hard work and I`m becoming tempted to take the easy way out. |
One infringement could cost you more than 10 years of Skydemon use and many tablets.
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Copied from the newspaper in the "Don't Get Lost" thread. £7000+ fine.
"Despite his aircraft being equipped with GPS mapping, he chose to rely instead on the more traditional method of navigation using a paper chart and visual reference points. At some point he lost awareness of his position and entered Luton Airport’s controlled airspace twice as he tried to establish his location." |
I believe if there is a tool out there to help then why not use it but don’t 100% rely on it. What I did like about SkyDemon was the ability to print out a flight plan with magnetic headings etc. So if there is an issue with your tablet for example battery runs out, freezes, you loose GPS signal ( which I’ve had numerous times in the eastern Mediterranean) then either you get your phone out which has the gps ability or you revert back to you old school map. Regarding using solely maps for navigation how many of us have been convinced we know where we are and then realise something doesn’t quite tie up. Look at the map and there isn’t enough detail or have made an error in the planning stage. In a commercial airliner there is always redundancy built in. So for one example if one landing gear computer fails there is a second and if that fails manual gear extension. I fully intend tend to take this approach of redundancy available for when I’m navigating in light aircraft. Last thing I would want is a fine or sending a commercial aircraft on a go around due to my infringement. |
Originally Posted by Maoraigh1
(Post 10407848)
Copied from the newspaper in the "Don't Get Lost" thread. £7000+ fine.
"Despite his aircraft being equipped with GPS mapping, he chose to rely instead on the more traditional method of navigation using a paper chart and visual reference points. At some point he lost awareness of his position and entered Luton Airport’s controlled airspace twice as he tried to establish his location." |
You can say that again.
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I found that a phone is better for skydemon over a tablet, and having the phone mounted at head height against the left window (in my case, by suction mount). I repurposed an old phone (Motorola Moto G) to be dedicated to skydemon. Never leaves my flight bag.
In this configuration and because of its smaller screen size, I find I spend more time looking out and flying and only need to glance at skydemon to verify that I'm track and to adjust course, or to read time/distance to next waypoint. It's small and not obtrusive. For airport plates, circuit diagrams, flight plan, etc - I print those out for my kneeboard. I could do it with a tablet, but paper is far easier to access and an insurance against any technical failure. |
Be aware that when an iPad overheats and shuts down, it's because the battery thermocouple is complaining.
The fact that Android tablets don't is beacuse they haven't got as much monitoring, not because they're better. If an iPad closes down it's too hot for ANY tablet... |
I have a Nexus 7 and an Ipad Mini, the Nexus is Brighter and small enough to fit on my panel, the Ipad I use on a kneepad which unfortunately means I have to deal with more due overhead glazing
I am at the stage of deciding which way works best for me, they both function well with the software. I've never had either overheat, but my cockpit is a tad draughty |
I choose Samsung Galaxy itablet 8 inch. Pleased with the product good battery life. Needs a shade to prevent reflections in sunny weather.
Flyme |
The Galaxy Tab has an 'Outdoor mode' (Settings -> Display -> Brightness) available to increase screen brightness. Works well with SkyDemon.
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Originally Posted by Nige321
(Post 10410190)
If an iPad closes down it's too hot for ANY tablet...
I've had overheating problems on just about every Apple device I've owned (iPad 2, iPad Mini, iPad Pro x3). I've NEVER experienced any overheat problems on any Android device I've ever owned (too many to list -Currently on a OnePlus6T, Galaxy Tab S2 8 and Galaxy Tab Pro S). |
Originally Posted by Edward Teach
(Post 10421592)
I don't agree with this.
I've had overheating problems on just about every Apple device I've owned (iPad 2, iPad Mini, iPad Pro x3). I've NEVER experienced any overheat problems on any Android device I've ever owned (too many to list -Currently on a OnePlus6T, Galaxy Tab S2 8 and Galaxy Tab Pro S). |
I should think that, if the Android machine _really_ overheats, something bad would happen to it. Edward tells us this has not occurred. So either the iOS things need more protection from overheating than Android stuff, or the protection is far out on the safe side. It must be said this might favour the device's long life - but who cares, in an apparatus that's not meant to last more than five years anyway?
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Standard Apple reasoning.
"It's not a bug, it's a feature." |
Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers
(Post 10421688)
I should think that, if the Android machine _really_ overheats, something bad would happen to it. Edward tells us this has not occurred. So either the iOS things need more protection from overheating than Android stuff, or the protection is far out on the safe side. It must be said this might favour the device's long life - but who cares, in an apparatus that's not meant to last more than five years anyway?
Can you guarantee it will last the full five years? And what if it finally falls over at the wrong moment... My worry is always what damage the heat is doing to those big flat LiPo cells... Some cheap Android devices may not have ANY thermal protection read by the OS. iOS devices tend to run cooler than Android, but their protection systems are built with very conservative limits. Think of it as a feature, not a fault... |
Originally Posted by Prop swinger
(Post 10421725)
Standard Apple reasoning.
"It's not a bug, it's a feature." |
It is a nice discussion, thanks for that!
Can you guarantee it will last the full five years? And what if it finally falls over at the wrong moment... My worry is always what damage the heat is doing to those big flat LiPo cells... Some cheap Android devices may not have ANY thermal protection read by the OS. |
Originally Posted by Jan Olieslagers
(Post 10421739)
But even mid-quality LiPo's have all kind of protection built into themselves. It should not be a concern of the host device. Beware, though, of low-cost so-called high performance Lithium batteries; especially from certain low-price sources/countries.
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Negative: I know. But your definition of "mid-quality" may differ from mine, of course. Lack of certification of them batteries, perhaps. I totally agree that only a fool will install batteries from Ebay, Banggood &c in anything carried aloft.
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Originally Posted by Nige321
(Post 10421734)
Correct, it's a feature. It's called thermal protection...:ugh:
In their quest for form over function they built a product with inadequate ventilation/cooling & try to cover up by shutting it down. If anyone complains, they're told "they're using it wrong." I can do 4 or 5 hour flights with my device plugged in & charging, with the screen turned up to maximum brightness & it barely gets warm. |
Originally Posted by Prop swinger
(Post 10422173)
. . . covering up poor design.
In their quest for form over function they built a product with inadequate ventilation/cooling & try to cover up by shutting it down. If anyone complains, they're told "they're using it wrong." I can do 4 or 5 hour flights with my device plugged in & charging, with the screen turned up to maximum brightness & it barely gets warm. If your Android is 'barely warm' then it isn't being fried in a greenhouse cockpit. As I said, it's down to thermal risk management - Apple play it safe, it's easier for them to do it, whereas the Android market has its usual fragmentation problem. Ask yourself why really there's only two players in the commercial and military EFB market. iOS and Windows. ie. USAF use 21,000 iPads. Delta use 10,000 Surfaces. You won't find many Android tablets amongst the major players. Two main reasons, security and, yes, thermal control... |
Originally Posted by Prop swinger
(Post 10422173)
. . . covering up poor design.
In their quest for form over function they built a product with inadequate ventilation/cooling & try to cover up by shutting it down. If anyone complains, they're told "they're using it wrong." I can do 4 or 5 hour flights with my device plugged in & charging, with the screen turned up to maximum brightness & it barely gets warm.
Originally Posted by Nige321
(Post 10422230)
Two main reasons, security and, yes, thermal control...
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Originally Posted by Edward Teach
(Post 10422330)
Exactly this.
Security is the ONLY reason. It has nothing to do with thermal management. As above. Still, if that's what you want to believe and trust your nav to, go ahead... |
Going back to the subject, rather than a iOS / Android willy waving contest.
I have to confess that, although I've considered one, I have never used an android device with SD as I'm sure, at the time I subscribed to SD, it was a 'lesser version' available on Android. It may have changed now, so happy to be corrected on that one! I'm currently using my wife's old Ipad 2 cellular, which must be getting on for seven or eight years old, and it works fine - haven't experienced any overheating issues. Previously, I used an Ipad Mini with a Garmin Glo GPS, and it was the Glo which kept quitting due to overheating, as it usually sat on the coaming in full view of the sun. Popping it out of the sun for a couple of minutes revived it, though, and I found it worked just as well sitting on the back seat. My point is - eventually - that there are loads of second hand ipad 2's about on online auction sites, which will be the same kind of money as a new Android tablet. |
I also vote for either a low-end iPad or second hand. There is not much sense in saving money with regards to flying on that level. C‘mon, we talk of investing the equivalent of two hours of flight. Btw, after ForeFlight started offering AirMillion charts from today on, Skydemon turns now 95 percent dead for me. I was using Skydemon along ForeFlight for a couple of month, to compare and be ready to jump on the next train. I really like the more professional feel of ForeFlight and suspect this will even improve under Boeing supervision. Skydemons clear VFR charts compared to FF ugly homebrew kept me until today. As of today, for me SD only serves to check graphical Notam, once that is available in FF I am 100 percent out. Another reason to choose iOS: staying ahead of innovation progress. |
This thread has been very useful... I’m an Apple person of at least a decade, with many workstations, laptops, iPads and iPhones in the house. But I wanted a dedicated device bigger than my iPhone 8 for flying, and none of my current ipads have GPS. My default would be an iPad but frankly I just think the prices are getting crazy and resent having to get a cellular one to use gps. I thought about a Bluetooth gps unit like Garmin Glo, which I could have used with a full size recent iPad or very old mini 1. But that means more devices to charge and remember. I’d been watching a few iPad mini 3&4 on eBay but they still go for £250+ with no warranty and no idea of their past lives. £500+ new seems a waste for something I want to live in my flightbag and not have too many apps on. In fact I don’t want the temptation of all my usual Apps. Im not that familiar with Android (used one device briefly years ago), but ultimately decided it would be worth keeping an open mind and trying it - so based on some comments on this forum and others, plumped for a Huawei M3 lite (8 inch) which was reduced to £140 new and has GPS, good screen and battery life. Not used it in the air yet but first impressions are encouraging. Mostly I’m just getting used to Android to try and get as familiar as possible and learn how to shut everything off I don’t need and make sure I can move around it. Skydemon itself seems pretty good, the biggest thing that hits you initially is that it refreshes significantly slower - panning around in planning is much less smooth than on Ios (phone and ipad) , not sure if this is device or code or bit of both. Also I’d prefer if aircraft and waypoints would just stay in sync between devices, but that’s not an Android/iOS thing. The rest will report back as I go. I’ll have the iPhone on a ram sucker mount and the m3 on my knee board (ordered a simple silicone case and used two strips of Velcro to hold to the interior knee board so can still close lid and use paper - for now). No idea what the Android equivalent to iOS location services ‘always’ is. Any tips for that and any other Android things would be much appreciated! Hope to fly with it this week so will add some more comments down the line. |
A bit late to all this. I've just finished my PPL and wanted to share my experience in this regard. The Flying School that saw me through my training has many planes, each of which has a dedicated, charged iPad. On a cross-country recently, the iPad overheated mid-flight and shut down. It was a very hot day and had been lying on the seat. Trouble is, this had also been running PilotAware. So, suddenly and WITHOUT WARNING, that key source of information was lost. Fortunately, my personal Android tablet (Samsung), positioned right alongside, carried on doing its thing. My Android phone, on a suction thing in the windscreen, carried on doing its thing. I was actually navigating using a CAA chart with the route plotted, but I am glad I wasn't reliant on the iPad.
When I landed back at base and reported the issue with the iPad, I was told they'd seen this issue, albeit rarely, on other iPads on the fleet. |
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