Flying over Gatwick at 6000'
 

So, currently going around or under Gatwick airspace (VFR) when headed east-west Popham-Brussels, but anyone know if I go IFR whether I'll:

1. Get something more direct overhead, and at what level?
2. Get a huge diversion around?

Or, 3, other?

Be interested to hear back.

Thanks, Sam.

Following the western shoreline of Chesapeake Bay, on my way to visit First Flight...talking to the Naval Air Station, they asked me please to fly directly overhead, which makes sense as they can keep an eye on you.

Hi Mary,

Thank you, but, if I may, that SO wins the 'interesting but not really relevant to the question' prize! :-)

Had you asked this just over 40 years ago, it was possible to fly over Gatwick between 4,500 and 5,000ft as the airspace was not compulsory IFR below 5,000ft (apart from the Gatwick CTR which I believe was surface - 4500ft) ie it was the equivalent of what we now call Class E airspace.

I'm wondering if this is going to become the 'how irrelevant an answer can I post to the question?' thread!

:-)

I’m not an expert in that particular airspace, but I’d be surprised if you would get a better route than suitably south of the Gatwick holds. If something like GWC-DVR is a big detour and you want to go between Gatwick and Heathrow then I’d be suprised if you get to join controlled airspace before Kent somewhere.

Once when driving in the USA my wheel fell off.

That's my baseline thinking, but a short while back (for interest) I asked for a climb (still south of Gatwick) but up into the TMA. The reply was "not possible because you're on a VFR flight plan". So, wondering if that might have been possible if on an IFR flight - or if I'd then be routed much further south to get the altitude desired (ie still keeping me out of the TMA)?

Thanks Katamarino!

Now, where's the number of my other mate in Basra, the one outside the fence...

Airpolice.

I'm sorry - your post contains the word 'Gatwick' and so is not completely irrelevant.

Could do better...

I love lamp.

IFR departures from Blackbushe and Fairoaks towards DVR often file to join at OCK at FL100 in spite of the FISOs at both airfields telling them to file the SDR (GWC - SFD - DVR).
The pilots sometimes moan (especially if it's a bit bumpy) that they don't get climb from 2,400 until they approach DET although Thames Radar do try to do it as early as possible .

IFR in the London TMA is always a bit hit or miss... Sometimes you have to hold and wait 20+mins to get through.

It is quite unlikely that you'll get across Gatwick at 6000ft (or probably any height above the usual VFR transit at 1000ft crossing perpendicular to the runway), your IFR route probably would be something like Popham - GOXUL to join L9 then out to KONAN which is probably a similar extension to your routing south of Gatwick. Albeit perhaps an easier route as IFR in CAS is much easier than IFR OCAS (at least in my mind...)!

The shuttle between the two terminals is free; and it's a lot less than 6,000'.

Don't think it goes around Chesapeake Bay though.:(

Going around it!
 

Sam,

FWIW, my experience is every single time when heading east [traveling from Bristol / Gloucester to France / Belgium in the London TMA at 10,000ft] I get vectored way south of Gatwick. My direct route would be over the southern end of the Heathrow TMZ, but I get sent south not even over Gatwick but down to the south coast just about to [or actually to] the SFD VOR before I can turn ENE again on-track.
Heading West from France / Belgium back to Bristol / Gloucs, each time I get vectored where I would like to be [southern end of Heathrow TMZ] and get a great view of Heathrow on the right side if the weather is good.
This is presumably due to 'normal' east/ west routes and heavy iron holding patterns: the above experience is irrelevant to the flight plan filed and accepted route in each direction [which is way different].

May be different at 6,000' of course ..

Tom

Once had a right hand seat down the 13 IGS at Kai Tak.

Depends - on lots of things:

What are you flying (performance wise ) and what time of day it is (busy periods in the TMA).

Once away from the surface/CTRs most of it is class A now, so that would be the reason you didn't get your VFR route approved.

I find that in a Cirrus where speed and climb performance is less likely to cause issues I get a more (reasonably) direct route. In a PA28, it seems I'm only just getting steady on the last heading given then there is either a new heading issued or a level change instructed to keep me out of the way.

Usually I go to the North of London so I don't really have any relevant/recent experience, but I'd be thinking that they'd more likely vector you to the south of LGW to keep you clear of LHRs southern SIDs and STARs and Gatwick northern stuff. Less congested to the south.

Difficult with area controllers, but if I'm not sure what's best I try and call the radar/approach controllers at an airport to see what they're preferred/likely steers are going to be.

The controllers in this airspace won't be Area Radar (ACS), they'll be Approach Radar (APS) with Terminal Control (TCL) endorsements for the particular sectors where they work

If you can get to FL80 or above could you file an IFR flight plan to join L9 at CPT to KONAN then fit in with Brussels STARS. Obviously might need a bit of orbiting outside of controlled airspace to reach 80 from Popham. If you're aircraft is below 2300kg or whatever the limit is for Euro charges nowadays, and it's de-iced, and you have an IR then why not do that every time, far easier than low level VFR stuff.

Thanks - wasn't aware of the correct terminology but the principle is the same. I can call Newcastle ATC and speak with the Duty ATCO for advice but with upper airspace I was never sure who would take a call if I ever wanted to.