Flying over Gatwick at 6000'
Flying over Gatwick at 6000'
So, currently going around or under Gatwick airspace (VFR) when headed east-west Popham-Brussels, but anyone know if I go IFR whether I'll:
1. Get something more direct overhead, and at what level?
2. Get a huge diversion around?
Or, 3, other?
Be interested to hear back.
Thanks, Sam.
1. Get something more direct overhead, and at what level?
2. Get a huge diversion around?
Or, 3, other?
Be interested to hear back.
Thanks, Sam.
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Following the western shoreline of Chesapeake Bay, on my way to visit First Flight...talking to the Naval Air Station, they asked me please to fly directly overhead, which makes sense as they can keep an eye on you.
So, currently going around or under Gatwick airspace (VFR) when headed east-west Popham-Brussels, but anyone know if I go IFR whether I'll:
1. Get something more direct overhead, and at what level?
2. Get a huge diversion around?
Or, 3, other?
Be interested to hear back.
Thanks, Sam.
1. Get something more direct overhead, and at what level?
2. Get a huge diversion around?
Or, 3, other?
Be interested to hear back.
Thanks, Sam.
Last edited by chevvron; 21st Nov 2017 at 10:37.
I’m not an expert in that particular airspace, but I’d be surprised if you would get a better route than suitably south of the Gatwick holds. If something like GWC-DVR is a big detour and you want to go between Gatwick and Heathrow then I’d be suprised if you get to join controlled airspace before Kent somewhere.
That's my baseline thinking, but a short while back (for interest) I asked for a climb (still south of Gatwick) but up into the TMA. The reply was "not possible because you're on a VFR flight plan". So, wondering if that might have been possible if on an IFR flight - or if I'd then be routed much further south to get the altitude desired (ie still keeping me out of the TMA)?
I’m not an expert in that particular airspace, but I’d be surprised if you would get a better route than suitably south of the Gatwick holds. If something like GWC-DVR is a big detour and you want to go between Gatwick and Heathrow then I’d be suprised if you get to join controlled airspace before Kent somewhere.
The pilots sometimes moan (especially if it's a bit bumpy) that they don't get climb from 2,400 until they approach DET although Thames Radar do try to do it as early as possible .
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IFR in the London TMA is always a bit hit or miss... Sometimes you have to hold and wait 20+mins to get through.
It is quite unlikely that you'll get across Gatwick at 6000ft (or probably any height above the usual VFR transit at 1000ft crossing perpendicular to the runway), your IFR route probably would be something like Popham - GOXUL to join L9 then out to KONAN which is probably a similar extension to your routing south of Gatwick. Albeit perhaps an easier route as IFR in CAS is much easier than IFR OCAS (at least in my mind...)!
It is quite unlikely that you'll get across Gatwick at 6000ft (or probably any height above the usual VFR transit at 1000ft crossing perpendicular to the runway), your IFR route probably would be something like Popham - GOXUL to join L9 then out to KONAN which is probably a similar extension to your routing south of Gatwick. Albeit perhaps an easier route as IFR in CAS is much easier than IFR OCAS (at least in my mind...)!
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Going around it!
Sam,
FWIW, my experience is every single time when heading east [traveling from Bristol / Gloucester to France / Belgium in the London TMA at 10,000ft] I get vectored way south of Gatwick. My direct route would be over the southern end of the Heathrow TMZ, but I get sent south not even over Gatwick but down to the south coast just about to [or actually to] the SFD VOR before I can turn ENE again on-track.
Heading West from France / Belgium back to Bristol / Gloucs, each time I get vectored where I would like to be [southern end of Heathrow TMZ] and get a great view of Heathrow on the right side if the weather is good.
This is presumably due to 'normal' east/ west routes and heavy iron holding patterns: the above experience is irrelevant to the flight plan filed and accepted route in each direction [which is way different].
May be different at 6,000' of course ..
Tom
FWIW, my experience is every single time when heading east [traveling from Bristol / Gloucester to France / Belgium in the London TMA at 10,000ft] I get vectored way south of Gatwick. My direct route would be over the southern end of the Heathrow TMZ, but I get sent south not even over Gatwick but down to the south coast just about to [or actually to] the SFD VOR before I can turn ENE again on-track.
Heading West from France / Belgium back to Bristol / Gloucs, each time I get vectored where I would like to be [southern end of Heathrow TMZ] and get a great view of Heathrow on the right side if the weather is good.
This is presumably due to 'normal' east/ west routes and heavy iron holding patterns: the above experience is irrelevant to the flight plan filed and accepted route in each direction [which is way different].
May be different at 6,000' of course ..
Tom
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Depends - on lots of things:
What are you flying (performance wise ) and what time of day it is (busy periods in the TMA).
Once away from the surface/CTRs most of it is class A now, so that would be the reason you didn't get your VFR route approved.
I find that in a Cirrus where speed and climb performance is less likely to cause issues I get a more (reasonably) direct route. In a PA28, it seems I'm only just getting steady on the last heading given then there is either a new heading issued or a level change instructed to keep me out of the way.
Usually I go to the North of London so I don't really have any relevant/recent experience, but I'd be thinking that they'd more likely vector you to the south of LGW to keep you clear of LHRs southern SIDs and STARs and Gatwick northern stuff. Less congested to the south.
Difficult with area controllers, but if I'm not sure what's best I try and call the radar/approach controllers at an airport to see what they're preferred/likely steers are going to be.
What are you flying (performance wise ) and what time of day it is (busy periods in the TMA).
Once away from the surface/CTRs most of it is class A now, so that would be the reason you didn't get your VFR route approved.
I find that in a Cirrus where speed and climb performance is less likely to cause issues I get a more (reasonably) direct route. In a PA28, it seems I'm only just getting steady on the last heading given then there is either a new heading issued or a level change instructed to keep me out of the way.
Usually I go to the North of London so I don't really have any relevant/recent experience, but I'd be thinking that they'd more likely vector you to the south of LGW to keep you clear of LHRs southern SIDs and STARs and Gatwick northern stuff. Less congested to the south.
Difficult with area controllers, but if I'm not sure what's best I try and call the radar/approach controllers at an airport to see what they're preferred/likely steers are going to be.
The controllers in this airspace won't be Area Radar (ACS), they'll be Approach Radar (APS) with Terminal Control (TCL) endorsements for the particular sectors where they work
If you can get to FL80 or above could you file an IFR flight plan to join L9 at CPT to KONAN then fit in with Brussels STARS. Obviously might need a bit of orbiting outside of controlled airspace to reach 80 from Popham. If you're aircraft is below 2300kg or whatever the limit is for Euro charges nowadays, and it's de-iced, and you have an IR then why not do that every time, far easier than low level VFR stuff.
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The controllers in this airspace won't be Area Radar (ACS), they'll be Approach Radar (APS) with Terminal Control (TCL) endorsements for the particular sectors where they work