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Air League: Proposed long distance award Kirk
I would like to float the idea that Maurice Kirk receives recognition from the Air League for his long distance unsupported or non sponsored flying exploits.
Terry Holloway at the Air League has proposed on the upcoming agenda that the Air League recognise Kirk's journeys. The Air League awards committee sits on 11 Jan, and notwithstanding that I have not received a formal nomination for him, I have placed Maurice's name on the agenda list for discussion and consideration. This from Terry Holloway. It would require around 500 to 1000 words outlining what he has achieved in the field of aviation as a pilot, with a particular emphasis on the encouragement of others either into a career in aviation or by promoting aviation to the public at large through his personal endeavours, and through positive publicity in the media. The question for the awards committee would be whether the "positives" outweigh all the negative stuff - of which there is plenty. I personally have a regard for his stick and rudder skills and his tenacity. Some background info here from Kirk's 2001 UK to Sydney Air Race. Four British aviators were flying the $1.5m Spirit of Kai Tak to victory in a re-enactment of the historic London-Sydney air race, several thousand feet below was Maurice Kirk, spluttering along at 65mph in the oldest plane in the competition. Mr Kirk, a vet from South Wales, finished hours behind the other competitors at every stage of the 28-day, 14,000-mile "kangaroo route", which retraced Ross and Keith Smith's first flight from Britain to Australia in 1919. British team, Mark Wilkinson and Tim Ellison, a paraplegic since his RAF Harrier plane crashed, finished second fastest, and a helicopter flown by Britons, Jennifer Murray and Colin Bodill, beat off competition from American, Australian and Dutch crews to finish. But the flying vet in his 1943 Piper Cub was the first to land in Sydney on Saturday after he was banned from joining the 31 other planes in a formation flypast the Opera House and Harbour Bridge. Race organisers had heard rumours that bets had been placed on Mr Kirk becoming the first pilot ever to fly a loop of the bridge. It was just one of many brushes with the authorities for Mr Kirk <->- "either really a brave guy or a lunatic" judged one of Kai Tak's pilots, Mark Graham. "I can't stand the bureaucracy of airports and this thing of having to land when you're told to and where," said Mr Kirk, 54, standing by his battered plane on Sydney's Bankstown landing strip. "Then they fine you for landing and then you pay extra for the motion lotion. "In India the whole air race couldn't get any fuel. So I went down the petrol station and bought 20 gallons. I said to everyone: 'I'm in Rangoon first, last one home buys the drinks.' Except it all went wrong because the fuel pump jammed and I had to land on a jungle strip in Burma. Well, Burma was taboo. But they were all in skirts and treated me like royalty. They fed me, it was fantastic." Mr Kirk, who only started the race after an American saw his "School of Rough Flying" website and stumped up the $55,000 (£35,000) entry fee, completed it with dozens of unscheduled landings. His first came moments after taking off from Biggin Hill, Kent, at the start of the race on March 11, when his instrument panel failed. His last was on the final leg of the race after bolts flew off his propeller. In between were more recreational touch-downs, including a visit to a disused airfield in Cairo to inspect a "graveyard" of 100 wrecked planes, and a refuelling stop on the drive of a farm in Australia, where Mr Kirk was given beer and food. The flying vet preferred the comfort of strangers to the hospitality laid on by the race organisers. "They made us stay in these horrible, what do they call them, hotels. Horrible big expensive hotels," he said. He got so far behind the other competitors the race organisers tried to stop him carrying on beyond Cannes. "They wouldn't let me race. It was logistics. They really couldn't cope with the Cub. Or was it Maurice Kirk? I forget which." While the Spirit of Kai Tak's four pilots took their twin-engined turbo Piper Aerostar to 25,000ft to benefit from strong tailwinds, Mr Kirk gasped for air in his open cockpit at 7,000ft, in a plane that had never been above 1000ft in its life. He was forced to fly at just 25ft above the Timor sea because of strong headwinds, reaching Australia at nightfall, with half an inch of oil left in the sump. The flying vet's 65mph cruising speed also attracted the suspicion of Indian officials, who detained him for nine hours and accused him of spying. "They said: 'Why is it all the other race aircraft have come past Jaipur in three hours from Karachi and you've landed nine hours after the others? We believe you've landed and have taken photos of our installations. We couldn't see you on radar.' "I said: 'What? You couldn't see me on radar? I'm going straight back to Pakistan. I could make a fortune on this one - I'm going to sell it to them.' They didn't like that," said Mr Kirk. "Very quiet trip otherwise." The flying vet said it was time to get back to Wales to do a day's work. "She's a tired old lady, like her pilot," he said, patting his Cub. Then Mr Kirk gave a grin. "That doesn't mean I'm not going to loop the bridge before I leave Australia." |
I think you are right to do this. Just in case any of this is of use:-
We are all aware that Maurice on this and past trips is an adventurer who is testing the boundaries of what a 72 year old but very experienced pilot can do ‘unsupported’ in an even older very primitive WW2 aeroplane flying long distances through the more remote and dangerous places in the world. It is not the normal way of doing things. We all know the expression when true life adventures or stunts get onto film. Someone has to do it. We like to watch. We can learn from it. But “do not try this at home”. ” |
His facebook site is closed. The Times reporter, Lucy Bannerman,was chasing him so perhaps some cash has clicked in.
What a great story though? So many suggested he give up and leave the Cub in South Sudan. As I understand it he donated £500 to the village school where he landed. |
I hear what you are saying and his feat on the Australian flight and now the African trip does deserve some recognition
However, flying a Permit Cub into an International airport at night, flying with a smidgen of oil, flying from the UK to Australia without a valid PtF, etc etc though fascinating to watch is not necessarily how we want to GA pilots to be seen. We have enough trouble with NIMBYs at, say, Stow Marie's who call us rich Playboy's whose aircraft might wipe out a puppy farm. MK nearly hit a school. I would really enjoy listening to his tales, if ever he came to the London area, but I don't think he's a role model that should be celebrated as such - not that I think he's bothered either way. |
My impression of Kirk is he is a pilot who can fix his basic aircraft anywhere in the world and get airborne. You mention paperwork and his suggestions of crash landing.
Kirk uses those tales to get publicity. The truth is there are very few pilots who can match his ability in situations such as he found himself in South Sudan. Kirk has never been prosecuted and found guilty of any flying issue as far as I know. |
Originally Posted by Jay Sata
(Post 9617955)
My impression of Kirk is he is a pilot who can fix his basic aircraft anywhere in the world and get airborne. You mention paperwork and his suggestions of crash landing.
Kirk uses those tales to get publicity. The truth is there are very few pilots who can match his ability in situations such as he found himself in South Sudan. Kirk has never been prosecuted and found guilty of any flying issue as far as I know. All I've got to go on is the Twinternet and all I can see from that is a great stick and rudder man but a pain in the ar*e who has problems with any form of authority. The interminable bolux concerning his court cases and incarcerations make me wonder what sort of bloke he is. I'm open to being convinced that he is worthy of an official award, but he seems to be too much of a maverick to want one or to care much either |
He is older now. It could be his last big trip. I think he would like an award and with his unusual achievements he deserves one.
I think he will like an award with something about it that has a humorous twist. |
I can think of no one less suitable to be promoted as an ambassador for aviation than Kirk.
He is a national and international disgrace to all that aviation represents, a lawless cowboy whose string of accidents, crashes, repeated engine failures and staggering cowboy attitude brings aviation itself into bad repute and indicate his total inappropriateness for this idiotic suggestion His total disregard for all laws, rules and conventions, aviation or otherwise, do not make him a hero, they make him a dangerous maverick. He should be prosecuted, not promoted. He is a shameful disgrace to all law abiding society, vetinary and aviation especially. Well done, thoroughly well done to the Kenyan authorities who have (one hopes) finally refused to allow this bodge-taped wreck of an aeroplane to continue in parlous flight when it is evident that many before it should have done so too. |
Nicely said nofly.
I'd add that the Air League, whose primary role is promoting aviation to young people, would have seriously taken leave of its senses in giving an award of any kind to a man with a criminal record for assaulting a 17 year old girl. G |
His explanation of that conviction regards the teenage ex-tenant portrays things very differently.
Some of the skills Maurice displays are special and ought to be recognised. Is there a different body that would be better suited to his specific achievements for as an adventurer flying a very old aeroplane unsupported for long distances. |
Is there a different body that would be better suited to his specific achievements for as an adventurer flying a very old aeroplane unsupported for long distances. Several other alternatives too. "I want I want I want Me Me Me Waaah! It's not fair!" springs to mind. OMB, are you not aware that every crook maintains his conviction was an entirely different scenario to that the court tried? Oh dear... |
There is a big difference between a crash and a hard landing.
Kirk appears to have had two episodes. Engine failure in Japan and he sunk a Cub in the Caribbean. How many of you armchair pilots have flown in those parts? |
Just two episodes? How many engine failures make an "episode"?
Are these apart from the series he had between UK and Sudan? And the numbers he's bragged about before that? Heavens! Do "those parts" cause engine failures? I hadn't realised! Is it a geographic thing then? How does that work? Volcanic perhaps??? How ever does aviation continue in the Caribbean and Japan on this basis? Or are normal, decent competent pilots somehow exempt from this affliction? The mind boggles. |
There seems to be three themes to engine failures or donkey stops. 1) Fuel supply, 2) atmospheric conditions and fuel supply and 3) oil or oil leak.
Where would the fair parallel be? If it were an old sports car then those guys on those forums and documentaries expect a car in good condition to cause them to pull over often and get their hands dirty. Is he wrong to fly "so many" long distance flights in a very old aeroplane? Or is he having too many donkey stops and oil leaks for an old aeroplane? And as he has landed safely without injury to anyone, (and only lost one cub as the donkey stopped 75 miles from shore), does that show above average flying skill? |
quote Robin
I hear what you are saying and his feat on the Australian flight and now the African trip does deserve some recognition However, flying a Permit Cub into an International airport at night, flying with a smidgen of oil, flying from the UK to Australia without a valid PtF, etc etc though fascinating to watch is not necessarily how we want to GA pilots to be seen. Are you suggesting permit aircraft should stick to just UK flying? |
noflynomore wrote:
I can think of no one less suitable to be promoted as an ambassador for aviation than Kirk. |
Originally Posted by Onmybike
(Post 9618147)
His explanation of that conviction regards the teenage ex-tenant portrays things very differently.
G |
Jay, you would have my vote and support on Maurice. That said, he, and others like him, engender, a bit like Donald Trump, views and reactions at each end of the scale. In my experience, they are the ideal candidates for an award. Individuals that make you wake up and take notice.
However, by the tone of the last couple of posts, looks like the Offended bus has arrived. |
Are you suggesting permit aircraft should stick to just UK flying? |
Originally Posted by maxred
(Post 9618380)
Jay, you would have my vote and support on Maurice. That said, he, and others like him, engender, a bit like Donald Trump, views and reactions at each end of the scale. In my experience, they are the ideal candidates for an award. Individuals that make you wake up and take notice.
However, by the tone of the last couple of posts, looks like the Offended bus has arrived. I think that Kirk is an embarrassment and a liability to general aviation, whose antics undermine our freedoms. He has also achieved considerably less than some other solo fliers, far more deserving of prestigious awards. To throw a few names in; Polly Vacher, Dave Sykes, Eve Jackson - did more, with equally limited resources, and without controversy, criminal records, or pointless anti authority grandstanding. G |
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, judgement, and assessment of what constitutes an embarrassment, a liability to GA, and to what would undermine our freedoms. On the last point, most of our freedoms are already undermined, not due to Maurice Kirk, but to authoritative, naive, and overbearing society liberals. True enterprising individuals, are now few and far between. This is a ridiculous indictment on our current society, hence the offended bus, which travels very far and wide, in its search for every morsel to be offended at. We want Scottish independence, up roles the bus. We want to leave Europe, up roles the bus, we want Trump as President, up roles the bus........I could go on all day. Sorry Genghis, MK is not the devil incarnate, just a spirited aviator doing his thing.
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Whilst the man is undoubtedly well travelled, I think any organisation would have difficulty giving someone with his...mixed reputation an award.
From what I understand he is foolhardy and a bit of a rogue. Luck, (perhaps some skill) has kept him out of serious trouble so far. |
I have just been enjoying a mental image of MK sharing an award ceremony with TCT. On second thoughts I find it difficult to imagine MK accepting any award from the same organisations who have honoured TCT.
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Robin Says :
However, flying a Permit Cub into an International airport at night, flying with a smidgen of oil, flying from the UK to Australia without a valid PtF, etc etc though fascinating to watch is not necessarily how we want to GA pilots to be seen. (RESPONSE): I think we need to take into account that Maurice is a very likeable 'loose cannon'. His flying into International Airports after Sunset was something that on at least 3 events I QUICKLY MANAGED TO GET 'SQUARED AWAY' with Authorities, Yes my AFPEX system was on fire with messages between ATC units & myself & also Authorities of AVIATION in Countries where he completed these landings. On the 2001 London to Sydney Air Race Maurice's PtF was current for the duration of that Race, as was his Insurance. I would agree in essence that Maurice isn't how GA Pilots would like to be seen, however Maurice is a Latter Day Louis Bleriot or Jim Mollison. Jay Sata Says : My impression of Kirk is he is a pilot who can fix his basic aircraft anywhere in the world and get airborne. You mention paperwork and his suggestions of crash landing. Kirk uses those tales to get publicity. The truth is there are very few pilots who can match his ability in situations such as he found himself in South Sudan. Kirk has never been prosecuted and found guilty of any flying issue as far as I know. (RESPONSE) : Maurice certainly has the skills to 'cobble together' his Cub to a standard where he would be happy to fly it..... That Standard is the " Kirkified Standard " which does not always correlate into the LAA PtF Standard. Maurice has had Crash Landings on this trip & lets be honest the camera never lies ;-) Maurice's tenacity to get himself into situations & then back out of them is legendary, as to whether Maurice has ever been prosecuted or found guilty of any flying issue I am sure the CAA have assigned the West Wing of CAA House to the Pontification Headquarters of the Maurice Kirk Incident Room, I say that in the knowledge that I was knackered after walking past his Section to get to the department I needed to visit ;-) Genghis The Engineer says : I'm very happy to be regarded as sat on the offended bus. I think that Kirk is an embarrassment and a liability to general aviation, whose antics undermine our freedoms. He has also achieved considerably less than some other solo fliers, far more deserving of prestigious awards. To throw a few names in; Polly Vacher, Dave Sykes, Eve Jackson - did more, with equally limited resources, and without controversy, criminal records, or pointless anti authority grandstanding. (RESPONSE) : I am backing Maurice 100% on his penchant to complete such epic trips, I am not saying I agree with him being put up for a Prestigious Award or anything like that, however there is something that does warrant our respect.... this is an Old Man who is doing more with his Cub than most flyers are doing with their High Tech Hotships. I look at such names as Vacher, Jackson, Sykes & a few others and comparing them to Maurice is a total disparity. Polly Vacher had an immense 'background team' so everything was very co-ordinated for her. Eve Jackson also had a very well processed team behind her who were there to help out on her very structured trip. Dave Sykes was as close as we could get to Maurice in that both have a Very Gung Ho attitude towards their flying and both managed to get to Sydney by hook or by crook. Lets not forget that Martin Bromage also set out on a UK to Australia Microlight Flight and was so well organised that he should have completed the trip with relative ease, the fate of Martin was sadly sealed by peer pressure and contrary to his better judgement he took off into inclement weather just to appease the media, Martin lost his life in a fatal incident just short of Le Touquet. Martin was a very experienced flexwing pilot as well as an accomplished helicopter pilot with skills far superior to many. Quite easily any of the names you mention could have fallen into the Liability category as can any of us. With regards to Maurice's criminal records, or pointless anti authority grandstanding I really don't see why that bears any relevance on a flying debate. Maurice is certainly not your run of the mill type of guy when it comes to his flying, however I would much prefer there to be a few more of his kind than the ' vanilla ' circuit bashers who want to decry the guy having a swansong trip. |
I take issue with your statement that Dave Sykes has a Gung ho attitude. He most certainly does not. His planning and preparation for his trip to Sydney was nothing like the way Maurice plans in any way shape or form. Just because he flew a Flex wing to Sydney doesn't make him a cowboy. Please don't use him in comparison with Maurice.
I do have some admiration for Maurice and he is keeping many of us entertained on a daily basis. I hope he gets where he wants to go and as a bystander look upon him as an eccentric, who cares very little about what others think of him and why should he? He is neither an inspiration nor a hero, but he is an adventurer. |
Having met both David Sykes and Maurice Kirk on several occasions, and flown with DS - I agree with you ak.
G |
I wonder if there will be a thread to get any award to MK retracted? If he should get one.
Hopefully awards will go to less divisive recipients in future. Not that I'm a fan of mediocrity or mob rule. But neither THT or MK are the sort of person I would give an award to. Maybe someone could donate funds to start the Jay Sata award. This award is to be awarded to who ever Jay thinks is a good example. Or how about a crowd funding campaign if no one wants to put their hand in their pocket, or put their money were their mouth is. :ugh: |
Jay Sata must be winding us up.
MK is a liability to the GA community and the wider public. Mildly amusing he might be for a minute or two but an ambassador for aviation? Get real guys. |
......bolts flew off his propeller.....25ft above the Timor Sea.......half an inch of oil left in the sump.... Yet here not only are some people lauding this idiotic display, they are proposing he be given an award by the very people they berated for supporting TCT when she did the same thing. If/when they do award Kirk what will you say when she and her publicity team point out the double standards? She has played the misogyny card before and while I have no respect for the woman whatsoever she would be right and you will have undone all the hard work that went in to exposing her. |
Must be great fun having enough money and free time to bugger off on an adventure through Africa, blaming everyone else when it goes pear shaped, insulting people along the way, expecting everyone else to pick up the pieces and then be recommended for an award at the end of it all. Waste of space.
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Originally Posted by thunderbird7
(Post 9621659)
Must be great fun having enough money and free time to bugger off on an adventure through Africa, blaming everyone else when it goes pear shaped, insulting people along the way, expecting everyone else to pick up the pieces and then be recommended for an award at the end of it all. Waste of space.
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"insulting people along the way" - Just like the 1990s TV show of a grumpy old man Victor Meldrew which was well received as TV comedy entertainment.
"free time" yes he is 72 and by state rules retired long ago. And he is on this long trip when he knows what it is like to be swimming in the ocean 75 miles from the coast in the Caribbean, with his Cub sinking, when he was around 63 or 64 years old. Controversial? Yes. But fascinating and riveting for many. If others wish to help why try and stop them? |
I've met him, had a conversation with him and saw the way he arrived at our airfield. I know first impressions should not be relied on to heavily. But he would have to do a lot to undo the negative impression I got from him as an aviator.
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The focus that an award or similar recognition is not for assessing what he is like as a pilot in routine humdrum of life, but for when facing challenges and hardship that many people or pilots would not cope well with, but where he shows his more exceptional abilities in pushing the boundaries of what a 72 year old can do 'unsupported' in a very primitive aeroplane that is even older than him and when flying long distances to the more remote and dangerous places of the world.
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Great stuff. I spent 7 hours one night searching Morecambe Bay in a Nimrod, (Sea King searching as well) for just such a character, attempting to sail to America in a 22' clapped out yacht using the blue bits of a road atlas to navigate by. When the sun came up, a rig spotted he was tied up to one of the legs, fast asleep on board.
Same attitude, same disregard for the 'normal conventions' with a worried family wondering where he was. Nothing to admire, just a stupid **** who thinks he's better than everyone else. |
Originally Posted by thunderbird7
Must be great fun having enough money and free time to bugger off on an adventure through Africa, blaming everyone else when it goes pear shaped, insulting people along the way, expecting everyone else to pick up the pieces and then be recommended for an award at the end of it all. Waste of space.
Kirk or TCT? |
I've not met the man but..... Earlier this summer, whilst at Dunkeswell, I watched him fly through the overhead of the nearby North Hill glider site in G-KURK. He was well below the cable release height for the winch-launched gliders. He then landed at Dunkeswell with no contact over the radio. Parachuting was taking place at Dunkeswell at the time.
Not someone I'd be happy to fly with! |
'Yet here not only are some people lauding this idiotic display, they are proposing he be given an award by the very people they berated for supporting TCT when she did the same thing.
If/when they do award Kirk what will you say when she and her publicity team point out the double standards? She has played the misogyny card before and while I have no respect for the woman whatsoever she would be right and you will have undone all the hard work that went in to exposing her. ' Well said Right Hand Thread. Spot on. |
There is no risk of misogyny or comparison with TCT as he obviously displays special skills when his Cub donkey stops, is unsupported and with no sponsor and he is personally rebuilding his 1940s aeroplane in a remote part of Africa right now as here:-
https://mauricejohnkirk.wordpress.com/ This is something special if not unique. |
From a photo elsewhere on PPRuNe, I opine that MK might at best somewhat repair his Cub. In the context of his adventure thus far, I have doubts that his repair would be one which is conforming, and airworthy. It won't be a rebuild.
If, (and it's a big if) he makes the Cub safely flyable, his award worthiness would be based upon what he does next: If he flies a dubious aircraft onward to continue a recreational trip, he is being irresponsible, and undeserving. This would be re enforced if in doing that, he had yet another unsafe event, which could be attributed to the Cub not being properly repaired, airworthy, and he, medically fit for the flight. Or, he makes the Cub safe for a ferry flight, has it duly inspected and issued a flight permit, is declared medically fit, and ferries it to a place where proper repairs are performed. That, in my opinion would be conduct which might make the trip award worthy as being adventurous and determined. I hope that awarding agencies are avoiding issuing awards to people who blatantly disregard the norms of established safe piloting. Such piloting disregard dishonours those who work to make flying safe. Awards should be something which everyone can support, not something which leaves a large segment of the group holding their nose. |
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