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-   -   Tracey Curtis-Taylor (Merged threads) (https://www.pprune.org/private-flying/579030-tracey-curtis-taylor-merged-threads.html)

robin 24th May 2016 08:10


It would be interesting to see TCT's log book and if "Solo" was entered against the flights.
Probably just says 'P1'

Flying Lawyer 24th May 2016 08:12

My only criticism of Jay Sata is the way he's gone about making his point.

If he'd focused on incontrovertible facts and on the misleading claims about the various flights then he would probably have been more persuasive.

TCT?

Never, in the field of aviation, was anyone so lauded for doing so little.

KZ8 24th May 2016 08:15

There was a BBC documentary film made about Judith Chisholm's preperation for her round-the-world flight, 'JUDITH CHISHOLM. ....If the sharks dont get me....' which is available on-line in DVD format. I remember it being on the telly.

Her biography used to be available from her mother, now sadly passed away, who was the author. Hopefully it is still available.

DaveW 24th May 2016 08:43

For the information of anybody reading this who is interested but doesn't visit the other forums:


Originally Posted by Jay Sata
Ian Seager at Flyer has banned Sam Rutherford from the Flyer forum

Jay Sata, this is NOT TRUE, and it does your credibility no good to suggest it is when those of us who followed this on Flyer are aware that you KNOW it is not true.

You made this same claim there, and after you did that Sam R posted to say:


Originally Posted by Sam Rutherford (on Flyer)
A couple of clarifications seem to be in order:
I have not been banned on Flyer.
I have not been banned on any other forums!
I have been made 'invisible' on pprune - which may have caused the confusion...



Originally Posted by Jay Sata
[Ian S] now blocks me posting the truth on this amazing story.

That is not how looks to anyone else, I believe. You are not "blocked from posting the truth" so far as I can see from Ian S' blunt words on there. You are blocked from posting the same old thing over and over again, but your original opinions are still there to be seen by anybody.

canopener 24th May 2016 11:02

"The Embelishment of my Life" by TCT
 
Such an interesting discussion,a little detective work down under would unveil the truth from all the smoke and mirrors.Rich boy friends,hyphenated surname,self promotion,inflated ego.......all is not what it seems.Could be a bad case of "Jean Batten" syndrome...I wonder?

9 lives 25th May 2016 01:13

This pilot has embarrassed herself. She has been dishonest, many times. Other people around her must have perpetuated that. Maybe she has not stopped to notice she's looking pretty foolish right now, but something will show her. In the mean time, she will fade into anonymity, where she belongs.

mary meagher 25th May 2016 08:26

good morning chaps....
 
I have asked a couple of newspapers, the Sunday Times being one, to investigate Tracy's exploits and awards. She is certainly photogenic, and no doubt would inspire men to buy whatever she is selling....

oggers 25th May 2016 11:43

TCTs achievements in aviation are underwhelming. Her achievements in PR and raising sponsorship are enviable though. At the end of the day she has found a way to indulge her passion. Get over it.

9 lives 25th May 2016 12:48


At the end of the day she has found a way to indulge her passion. Get over it.
Not so fast... If deception was involved, indulging one's passion is not honourable. If I say, and my logbook says that I flew a plane solo, I was alone in the plane, and took full responsibility for the flight. Though not so much in this case, but in other circumstances, this has licensing implications. If a candidate is required for licensing reasons to fly solo, that's the requirement - no one else aboard.

If TCT would misrepresent this, what other things she might say might not be truthful?

I embrace Mary's observation that women are entitled to the same opportunities as men, and perhaps have a little less ease in achieving them. However, entitling one's self to far extended intercontinental tours in antique aircraft probably exceeds nearly all pilot's opportunities, so hardly could be considered an entitlement - of either gender. Therefore, if you can arrange it with honour (and honesty) the power to you. But if you have to misrepresent to achieve it, you dishonour your group by detracting from the achievements of others who did it with honour. To me, it's no different that athletes who take performance enhancing drugs - not honourable, and disrespects peers.

Flyingmac 25th May 2016 13:07

If you can, read her book, 'Alone in the skies'. Scared the hell out of me.

Jean Batten, byname of Jane Gardner Batten (born 1909, Rotorua, New Zealand—died November 22, 1982, Majorca, Spain) aviator who made record-breaking flights from 1933 to 1937 and was perhaps the most famous New Zealander of the 1930s.
Batten was sent by her parents to England to study music, but she became intensely interested in flying and earned a private pilot’s license in 1930. She gained a commercial pilot’s license in 1932. In May 1934 she set a women’s record in her solo flight from England to Australia in 14 days, 23 hours, and 25 minutes. In April 1935 she became the first woman to fly solo from Australia to England, and in November 1935 she became the first woman to make a solo flight from England to Argentina. In October 1936 she made the first direct solo flight from England to New Zealand, in the process setting a record time for solo flight from England to Australia. She made other record times in solo flights from Australia to England (October 1937) and from England to Brazil. By the late 1930s she had received many honours and was an international celebrity, but she subsequently stopped flying and became somewhat reclusive.


In this case, SOLO means just that.




If you lot don't make TCT cry, this book should.

Stanwell 25th May 2016 17:23

Oh, goody...
People are just now starting to take notice of an issue wot's been going on for quite some time, now.
There are now three separate threads on PPRuNe forums discussing this subject.

WHY?

The 'Africa' thread was the first one where some members expressed some doubts about the veracity of TCT's claims.
Since then, she and her publicity machine have run totally out of control.
In spite of her initial mentor and then her major sponsor asking her to 'tone it down a bit', she considers this a 'career' .. for as long as it'll last ...
and YOU crowd can go and get ....

I'm a woman, don't you see?
... and, .. therefore, ...

While I'm a great fan of mary meagher, and wholeheartedly agree with 99.9% of her posts on here, I'm afraid she missed out badly when she opined ...
".. she is certainly photogenic .."
Nor do I think that she may have a point when she says ...
" .. and no doubt, would inspire men to buy whatever she is selling."

Good grief!
Would you buy a used plane (or anything) from her?

No, I'm afraid she's done a grave disservice to herself, her sponsors, helpers and those who've lauded her.
Pretty pathetic, really.


Eggs on face, anybody?

oggers 25th May 2016 17:28


Not so fast... If deception was involved, indulging one's passion is not honourable. If I say, and my logbook says that I flew a plane solo, I was alone in the plane, and took full responsibility for the flight. Though not so much in this case, but in other circumstances, this has licensing implications. If a candidate is required for licensing reasons to fly solo, that's the requirement - no one else aboard.
So now the inflated PR claims = she has falsified her logbook.


If TCT would misrepresent this, what other things she might say might not be truthful?
..not something that is going to keep me awake at night tbh.

canopener 25th May 2016 22:04

"Flyingmac" if you want to read the best biography on Jean Batten then try this "Jean Batten the Garbo of the Skies" by Ian Makersey.Behind all the Jean Battens of the world are men that paid for them.There are plenty off capable and successful women in all fields of activity that don't ride on the coat tales of so called feminism,they just do it.TCT is certainly not one of them.

Stanwell 26th May 2016 04:52

Hey, oggers..
As an earlier poster had mentioned, if it's arranged that you put 'PIC' down in your logbook, then everything's cool, innit?
Anyway, I'll let you get back to your wall-size, blow-up poster.

Flyingmac 26th May 2016 07:32


Originally Posted by canopener (Post 9388523)
Behind all the Jean Battens of the world are men that paid for them.

The way in which Batten went about funding her flights in no way detracts from her achievements. How many of us would fly a thousand miles over water solo, single engine, in crap weather, non-radio, on a compass? Not TCT.


She's done nothing that most of us couldn't do, with ease.

Genghis the Engineer 26th May 2016 08:51

I wonder why we are all *only* criticising TCT, and not also EG for continuously, and presumably for significant sums of money, collaborating in, and enabling, this fraud?

G

piperboy84 26th May 2016 09:16


Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer (Post 9388876)
I wonder why we are all *only* criticising TCT, and not also EG for continuously, and presumably for significant sums of money, collaborating in, and enabling, this fraud?

G

Can't blame the guy, he probably got paid to completely refurb his plane , maybe a couple engines thrown in, day rate for the plane and himself, hotel and food covered and multiple trips round the world, clients offering that are few and far between. Why wouldn't he just keep his head down, enjoy himself and bank some serious money. He has no obligation ethical or otherwise to police his customers, he's simply a hired hand.

Genghis the Engineer 26th May 2016 09:19

So it's okay to deceive the world for profit, but not for personal glory?

G

piperboy84 26th May 2016 09:52


Originally Posted by Genghis the Engineer (Post 9388894)
So it's okay to deceive the world for profit, but not for personal glory?

G

Haven't heard a peep out of the guy, never seen an interview or heard of him representing himself as anything other than what he appears to be, a guy renting out his time and equipment for personal profit which is the perfectly legal line of business he's in.

If you went down the road of blaming the contractors or suppliers for the way the end user utilised the goods and services supplied you'd have to chastise others for not grassing her up. That could at a stretch include the avionics engineer who installed the GPS and world databases on the Steerman as they probably were aware that the purpose of the flight was to recreate a historic fight made well before GPS was invented. Where do you stop? There's only one person responsible for the embellishments made, and that's the one calling the shots.

Genghis the Engineer 26th May 2016 12:24

Can't say that I agree with you there. I don't see much moral difference between lying actively and lying by omission.

G

rats404 26th May 2016 13:04

There may be an NDA in place that was contractually a part of the deal for him. He may not have been aware of the implications of that when he signed it.

I'm not defending him or anyone else, just positing a theory.

gasax 26th May 2016 13:47

It has to be said that his 'active discretion' in some of the videos is interesting to watch. Classic I'm not really here stuff.

But given his website and hers seem to utilise the same two aircraft there may well be something rather 'deeper' going on. either way he is certainly complicit in the lie.

Bronx 26th May 2016 14:11


Originally Posted by Senior Pilot (Post 9386426)

Agreeing with each other on PPRuNe isn’t going to achieve anything.

Writing to the Master, asking why someone who has made false claims about flying solo should be honoured by an Honourable Company might.

Attaching the photograph of her speaking in Seattle would make the point very clearly.

Captain Peter Benn
Honourable Company of Air Pilots
Cobham House
9 Warwick Court
Gray's Inn
London WC1R 5DJ

Or email to Captain Peter Benn: [email protected]


Good point?

MaxR 26th May 2016 16:55

I can't help thinking that, what some here identify as, the conspiracy of silence within the press (aviation and otherwise) is merely justifiable disinterest in a non-story. Fun reading this thread, though.

Stanwell 26th May 2016 17:30

"Conspiracy of silence" or "Justifiable disinterest"?
With many of the 'press' that ran with the stories, I'd suggest that, having sucked the readers and viewers in due to lack of due diligence,
they simply don't want egg on their faces.
Much better just to stay shtum.

(In case you're wondering about the definition of 'shtum' in English, a dictionary example given is:
"He kept shtum about the fact that he was sent down for fraud.")

canopener 26th May 2016 22:55

Is it possible that EG is just another silly old man besotted with the charming TCT?

megan 27th May 2016 00:57


someone who has achieved something fairly impressive
I beg to differ, absolutely nothing impressive about it at all. GA aircraft of one sort or another have circled the globe for years. All you need is money and an aircraft. Many well heeled US brethren have so indulged themselves, a number of Aussies and Brits likewise. One recent Aussie was a teenager. And they didn't cross the watery bits courtesy of airline.

robin 27th May 2016 14:13

.. and we will soon have another opportunity as a well-known lady celebrity flies a long-distance solo (in company with her boyfriend) with all the usual press and TV coverage

A le Ron 27th May 2016 22:13

Even if she got into this situation by accident, and it has grown out of hand, I can't understand why she doesn't just make a clean breast of it. At least she'd sleep easy.

Genghis the Engineer 28th May 2016 11:34


On the Facebook page referring to the crash, the front seat occupant is described as her "engineer".
I didn't realise that a Stearman needed a flight engineer. Begs the question of how all those other SEP record and ferry flights managed without one?

G

megan 28th May 2016 12:50


Begs the question of how all those other SEP record and ferry flights managed without one?
But, but, she might get oil on ones self during the pre flight, you know how those radials leak, do have to maintain pristine looks for the press you know, or snap a finger nail getting caps off checking fluid levels. Comments re this particular lady only, not a gender bash.

Genghis the Engineer 28th May 2016 14:37

Indeed, I don't recall Eve Jackson ever seeming concerned about the odd oil stain, even after she'd finished building the aeroplane herself.

G

Genghis the Engineer 28th May 2016 19:58

Pretty much.

Other people have done similar trips, most for more altruistic reasons, most for less personal glory, and all have been open about the level of personal commitment and external support.

I think that the level of deceit practiced by both TCT and the people supporting her, undermines GA and may well make it harder for more worthy future projects to attract support.

G

9 lives 29th May 2016 02:17


I think that the level of deceit practiced by both TCT and the people supporting her, undermines GA and may well make it harder for more worthy future projects to attract support.
+1


The truth will emerge in time.
There's more?

Jetblu 29th May 2016 09:56

I saw Jay Sata's lengthy post before he edited it and it would appear that there is much much more.

I'm sure we will read about it in the GA journals 😀

Genghis the Engineer 29th May 2016 10:55


Originally Posted by Jetblu (Post 9391858)
I saw Jay Sata's lengthy post before he edited it and it would appear that there is much much more.

I'm sure we will read about it in the GA journals 😀

I'm sure I can wait, but generally where people are unflinchingly honest in one area of their life, they probably are in all others. And, occasionally, the converse.

G

Stanwell 29th May 2016 12:16

Yes, I saw it too.
A few more jigsaw-pieces added to what is already a pretty clear picture.

To quote Baltasar Gracian (1601-1658):
"One deceit needs many others, and so the whole house is built in the air and must soon come to the ground."

Genghis the Engineer 29th May 2016 22:13

It's the Gemmological Association of Great Britain, not British Gemmological Association.

A quick google shows both Fellowships: FGA and FRGS as pretty easy to achieve, and of no real consequence. As such, probably no reason to doubt them either.

G

canopener 30th May 2016 05:34

This has become a very interesting forum topic to follow,to that end I've done some investigation down under in good old NZ and have come up with a proverbial can of worms.....suppose my user name is appropriate.Watch this space folks.

27/09 30th May 2016 10:30


Jay Sata:I would love to be listening in to the bar talk at the Auckland Flying Club
Likewise just a few doors down at NZ Warbirds Assn.


was trained by military pilots to fly World War II aeroplanes with the New Zealand Warbird Association

Danny42C: Is my memory playing me tricks, or was there yesterday an interesting and informative Post on this thread from a certain Mr Taylor who seemed to know what he was talking about ?
Would this Mr Taylor's front name start with "S" by any chance? If so I'm sure he knows what he's talking about.


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